67 Beetle will turn over but not start

[RBennett1983]

Hello all. I recently saved a 67 from a field in central Oregon and I am trying to get it up and going. I have driven the car recently, it was running and driving great, until last night. The car has been in my garage not being used and last night I went to start it and the battery was dead. It was very dark and I had a spare battery laying around, so I through it in the car and tried to turn it over, but that one was dead as well. So, i used my friends car to jump it and when I tried to connect the positive of the jumper cable to the positive on the battery, sparks flew everywhere. I had hooked the battery up wrong (I know, I'm an idiot). Well, after disconnecting it and charging the battery, today I tried to crank it and it will turn over but not start. I'm really hoping I didn't fry anything, but I would love to get some feedback on where to start with this. The fuses look OK, all the lights and everything works (except the radio, turn signals and horn-but they didn't work before this happened). Any ideas? Thanks

[jwp67]

When cranking, have someone check for spark at the plugs. You could have fried the condensor. Voltage regulator?

[drscope]

Start with the SIMPLE stuff.

There are 3 things needed for the engine to fire and run.

Fuel/air, compression and spark.

So unless it was running and blew up, you probably still have compression – at least enough on 2 or 3 cylinders to get it to fire off.

So the obvious things are spark and fuel/air.

The easy way to check for spark is to get the neighbors kid to stick their finger in the end of one of the spark plug wires while you turn the key and try to start the engine. You’ll know if it has spark!

But that can be bad for neighborly relations.

Pop the distributor cap off and with the car in 2nd gear and the parking brake off, push it forward until the points are closed.

If you see you have an electronic ignition module when you take the cap off the distributor, you probably fried it and that is the reason it won’t start. But if you have points continue on…

Now turn the key to on so you get dash lights but not turning the starter.

Then you can either rotate the engine by turning the generator or crank pulley, or just push the car a little until the points open. As they open you should see a spark.

You can also pry them open with a screw driver in place of turning the engine or pushing on the car. Each time you open them you should see a spark.

If you get no spark, you probably need a new condenser, or maybe even a coil as well.

But if you see spark, then the problem is going to be with the fuel/air.

This can be a tricky one. If you have no fuel/air, it won’t start. But if you have flooded it with too much fuel/air, it will also not start.

Sometimes trying to start them, its easy to flood them. You keep pumping the pedal as you grind away on the key and all you are doing is making the spark plugs wetter and wetter.

The plugs need to be DRY or else that electric charge goes down the plug and instead of jumping across the plug gap and making a spark, it simply runs around the gap on the conductive wet fuel.

So what you need if you have spark is a can of starting fluid. Starting fluid will usually help even the most flooded engine fire up. And if you don’t have enough fuel the starting fluid will normally be enough to get it to kick.

Give it a squirt of starting fluid and try it again.

Let us know what happens.
_________________
Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

[RBennett1983]

Got it running. Checked for spark, had it and it was getting fuel. I thought it might have been flooded so I let it sit...Nothing. A friend mentioned the carb might not be primed, put some fuel down it, fired up. Smoked A LOT, ran horrible for 5 minutes then smoothed right out. Now off to fix the brakes! Thanks for your help!

[drscope]

Pick up a can of starter fluid in your travels. It always helps when you are at that point that you don't know for sure if its flooded or not getting fuel.

If its already flooded and you prime the carb with gas you just make things worse. If its flooded and you give it a shot of starting fluid that usually gets them going.

And if its fuel starved a shot of starting fluid will wake it right up!

With a carb and a worn out ignition system (old points, plugs wires) sometimes changes in the weather can really cause problems. If there is a lot of moisture in the air it can be really easy to flood them and that is where a can of starting fluid can get you going again.
_________________
Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

[Jon Schmid]

Personally, I would not ever recommend starting an ACFF engine with starter fluid. Ever.
Jon

[RBennett1983]

Here is a video I took today of a start up and idle. It needs a muffler badly. Let me know what you think. I'm not sure what to listen for. NO tune up has been done. The plugs, wires, points, cap and rotor are all 20+ years old.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVqsMT9uJdg

[drscope]

[RBennett1983]

what does ACFF stand for?

[RBennett1983]

She only starts up like that when warm. If cold it is a lot harder to get it to idle. Over the summer when I started it for the first time since the late 90's, it actually started on the first rotation and idled great when cold. I think it may have something to do with the damp Pacific NW air and rain of our rainy season, like you mentioned.

[Jon Schmid]

ACFF = Air Cooled Flat Four. I thought that was a known. My bad if it wasn't. As for starter fluid, you do realize it is basically ether you are squirting in your engine? You tell me why you think that is a good thing.

[carcass]

[RBennett1983]

Ahh ACFF. Yes i guess I knew that. I am new to the Volkswagen world, I apologize.

As for starter fluid, I have used it before to start older v8's and things that have been sitting a while. For some reason I didn't feel the need to use it on my bug. I was a tad nervous. If that engine catches on fire, I'm pretty much screwed.

[Jon Schmid]

Well, I WILL admit to using starting fluid in the past, but it was to light the 390 CID V8 Rambler rat motor stuffed into my old 1973 CJ-5. A whole 'nother type of engine than what VW made. Couldn't blow that thing up if I tried, and sometimes I swear I did. Still wouldn't use it here, again, just my personal opinion.
Jon

[drscope]

[Jon Schmid]

OK, since you asked: Ether has a bad habit of washing the oil film off the cylinder walls. If you want the engine cranking but not starting right away, then I guess cylinder scoring and/or ring scuffing is not an issue for you. Second, gasoline burns quickly when ignited in the combustion chamber. Ether is just a wee bit more volatile. I had a carburetor backfire in my V-8, set the air cleaner on fire and everything. If that's what you want for your VW, have at it. Me, I'll respectfully pass on using the stuff. Even on rat V-8's.
Jon

[drscope]

Do you seriously think a squirt of ether is going to wash the oil off the cylinder walls enough to score things on the one or maybe two revolutions the engine may fire before the oil pump supplies more oil?

We're talking about starting the engine, not making a 1,000 mile journey using ether as the sole fuel.

It would be a different story if you were driving at 3,000rpm for long periods of time, but we are talking about low rpm for a revolution or two. If your oil supply is insuffecient enough for that to wash the oil off the cylinder walls and do damage, it isn't going to matter anyway.
_________________
Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

[Jon Schmid]

As I've said all along, it is something that "I" would prefer not to do and would not recommend using. You, sir, may do as you please. You wouldn't happen to be a lawyer, would you?

[crvc]

Maybe 15 years ago I had a bug with the crankcase continually filling with oil. I would notice it when the car died in traffic because the cylinders had filled with the thinned oil/gas mixture and shorted the sparkplugs. For a while I'd drain out the excess and keep driving.

It took a long time to figure out how the gas was getting into the crankcase. Eventually I pulled the engine and tore it down. I expected the insides to be a mess but what I saw was simply the cleanest cylinders and bearings I'd ever seen. No scoring, no damage to cylinders or bearings.

I've used ether-based engine starter for 35 years and don't think it ever led to engine damage.

crvc

[Cantfigureitout03]

Is there something obviously wrong with my wiring? My car won't start. I tried disconnecting the central wire going to the distributer and held it close to the intake to see if I could get a spark and nada.