Slinging oil, can't figure it out.

[skapunkfoo]

I know just enough of aircooled motors to get by and fix some things but I just can't figure this out. I swear I had a leak on the sand seal becasue the PO said it was going out when I bought the car. It also had a bent/warped crank pulley. I bought a new sand seal pulley with seal, installed them and I am still leaking oil.

I think its the sand seal because I get a nice spray pattern in a line on the inside of the decklid and all over the right side of the motor, but nothing on the left side.

does anyone have a video or picture how to on replacing a sand seal. I'm pretty sure I did it right but maybe not. It has a machined in sand seal as far as I can tell and does not have the spacer for the press in kind. The sand seal will not fit inside the case so I had to just tighten the pulley to the 36lbs. The seal is metal with rubber on the inside so I used a little RTB to glue it to the case.

Also on the alternator stand oil fill tube, when I have a tube that vents to the outside air I get less oil spray than when there is a filter on the vent outlet. I've cleaned the decklid every time I tried something to check the amount.

There is no oil spray when idle and only happens when under load so I cannot actually see if it's coming from the sand seal.

help.

[Danwvw]

Cutting the Case, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2hZYj3JX84
http://www.piersideparts.net/MST-VW1100-003.html

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/EMPI-Sand-Seal-Assembly-1-770-Pulleys-8695-p/00-8695-00.htm

These are a few of the seals I would call the people selling the one your using!
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[skapunkfoo]

ive seen that video already, it doesnt help me, though the links to the other sand seals might work in my case.

[modok]

[RailGuy]

put it in neutral and rev the engine using the carb arm while youre in the engine compartment and see where its coming from.

[skapunkfoo]

ill have to take a pic and post it tomorrow of the seal placement or over the weekend ill pull it off and take a few so you all can see what i mean.

ive had it in neutral and used the carb arm to rev it hoping to find where its leaking from but i get nothing. its vented with just a 1/4 hose going down through the engine tin and facing the ground as of right now. i plan to add a breather box and vent to the valve covers this weekend once i drill the holes in the covers.

appreciate all the help so far. if i cant figure it out ill just rebuild the motor. kind of want to anyway just for peace of mind since i dont know and the PO didnt know how many miles is on the motor.

[hill]

I had an engine that pulled the head bolt at the top corner over the crank pulley, rear of the oil cooler (another leak than can deceive). Oil ran down to the pulley under the tin and got slung out in a line as you describe.

I'm saying keep other possibilities open on what's causing your problem.
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'78 Biegephalia

[VWNut_69]

I use a sand seal and mine goes into the case. The nose is uasually cut for the seal and it goes into that area that was cut. You make it sound like yours is on the outside of the case and you are holding it in place with silicone, corerect?
If it wont fit into the case then maybe you have the wrong seal. Does it look like the old one in size? Was the old one in the case and had to be pulled out?
They are a tight fit and wont just push in, light tapping of a hammer with a large socket usually gets them in.
Once you post pics then we may be able to see the issue.
Mike

[skapunkfoo]

will post pics this weekend. the new seal came witht he pulley and is most likely the wrong one. the old seal was rubber and inside the case and i removed it but there wasnt much left of it. it did have a metal spring like O-ring. the PO gave me a new seal very similar (as far as i can tell) to the old one but it sat in my garage as did the car for the last 9 months while i was in afghanistan so it wasnt in very good shape when i tried to put it in. it cracked on me.

i do have an oil slinger pulley that fits kind of. it will only go on half way before it hits something and cannot go on any further.

sorry but i didnt get much info from the previous owner on the motor, and my wife helped get it for me as an anniverssary gift 2 months before deploying.

thinking of just getting it rebuilt if i cant figure it out so that will be fixed and ill also know whats in there.

[66brm]

The reason your stock style pulley won't fit may be due to a spacer on the crank, fitted for use with the sand seal style pulley
_________________
Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval

[skapunkfoo]

I thought it might have had the spacer and from what I can see it doesnt have one. I think it might be easier if the motor still wasnt in the car to look in there to really see. Im trying to avoid having to drop the motor just to change a pulley and seal that can be done with it still in the car.

[VWNut_69]

[damicotile]

I had the same problem too. My engine is a 2276, I have 2 case vents, sand seal and I was still getting oil slinging until I figured that no matter how much I vented the case it would still leak.

It turned out to be coming from the dip stick, not much but enough to get the compartment oily.
I pulled the dip stick out and put a rubber cork in it.
No more leaks at all.
Try that first and see if that helps.
_________________
'73 SB
82x94
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Silicon bronze sleeves
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42x37 Steve Tims
44 IDF's
9.2:1
A-1 Sidewinder coated

__________________________________

[skapunkfoo]

Time for pictures.

This is the old seal that was with the vehicle. It was inside a grove on the inside of the sand seal. Its got a metal spring like O-ring. I imagine that there used to be more to the seal.

Anyway this is what it looks like after only driving less than 2 miles. I cleaned it up before this and changed the dip stick, which increased the amount of oil slung all over the engine.

This is the oil dipstick I had in before. When this one is in there is less oil spray, I think in part to the fact that it has a hole in it which I didnt notice before so there was some pressure relief. The dipstick that I had in when I drove it this time is fulley sealed and there was more oil spray.

The new sand seal pully and the seal it came with is the redish orange thing. As you can see it doesnt fit inside at all. It is very similar to the seal that NAPA sells.

NAPA Seal NOS 17240
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NOS17240_0339030833

Yellow arrow - Where I think the oil might be actually coming out from since the case doesnt meet all the way. Just noticed it.
Blue Arrow - where the old rubber seal was inside.
Red Arrow - The sand seal that came with the pulley sits on this ring.

on a side note, is it me or is this oil pump really thick?

If I was to put on a breather box and reduce the amount of pressure would it help at all? Right now the breather is just a 1/4" hose that vents to the ground. I used to have a breather with the filter element in it but that created more oil spray.
I'm pretty sure I will have to rebuild this motor an get a new case but if I was to put some high temp silicone or JB weld where the case doesnt meet, would it help/solve this problem long enough to last for me to get the $$$ for a new long block? I know it wont be the best but at this point Im trying to avoid having to pull the motor. Hate having to take off the dual carbs to drop the motor.

any help is appreciated. I am still new to the ACVW motors and learning but I am very mechanically inclined so I pick up on stuff quick.[url][/url]

[modok]

The metal shell of old seal is still IN there, you have to pull that out before putting in the new seal!

the rubber piece used to be attached to the steel part that is still in the case

Your breather is not as good as the stock breather. If you were local I'd give you a stock one, easier than improving on the design of that fancy looking oily thing

A lot of VW's suffer from these fancy pulleys and breathers, I donno why, if folks had left the stock stuff alone the oil would stay inside better

[hooker]

Looks like you have a "built" engine with dual carbs and no proper ventilation at all.I think you're building up crankcase pressure and pushing the oil out the pulley as well as the dipstick hole and anywhere else it can get out of. Most the time no proper ventilation or slight vacuum to the crankcase will cause the valve covers to leak at high rpm. If you e-mail me I can send you some pics and different ways to overcome this problem.
_________________
2007 NHRA Division 6 Finals Champion air cooled Rabbit P/U rear engine compact/import class, 13.32 sec 1/4 Woodburn, Oregon
Pauter Big Block VW 2610 cc turbo mid engine roadster 9.69 sec @ 147 mph 1/4 PIR Oregon





I spent most my money on women and VW race cars. The rest I wasted.

[skapunkfoo]

email sent. thank you.

everyone else- what about the top where the case doesnt meet up all the way? is this going to be a big problem? will i have to get a new case?

most breather boxes are designed to go into the valve covers, what if i put the hoses to the tops of the carbs, would that be better?

[Quokka42]

Hard to see the case problem, though it does look a little out. As it seems your case was machined for a sand seal, I would imagine it will still seal once installed correctly provided there is not an actual gap there.

The vents in the valve covers are to let fumes and pressure out of the engine, the fittings you see on filter tops are an attempt to provide a little negative pressure to encourage things in the right direction.

Depending on your engine, you may get away with ventilation at the stock location, where the oil return is at the bottom of the gen stand. A breather box will generally have additional vents at it's side for ventilation - to be fitted to valve cover breathers, etc; one at the bottom to drain back into the case - often at the fuel pump blockoff or gen stand; one at the top to vetilate through a small filter (which must be cleaned often) or to the air filters.

Fumes from the crankcase enter from the sides, oil is separated by the baffles or potscrubber to drain out the bottom, and blowby gases vented out the top.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[hill]

You've got to get the rest of the old seal out as Modok shows.

I don't think that the place where it looks like the case didn't come together is a worry in itself. It looks like the kind of result you see when some bonehead split the case by putting his sheathknife blade in rhe crack and pounded it with a hammer. Most boneheads realize that it's not working after they've made this much damage and stop........some don't stop until they've ruined the case.

Is that rubber tube the only breather the engine has? It won't work as a road draft by itself and the engine is probably guaranteed to push out oil from a kot of unexpected places There's no use trying to seal it until it's got some kind of effective venting system.
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'78 Biegephalia

[jsturtlebuggy]

Napa does not carry the correct seal to use in a case cut for a Sand Seal.
Those CR seals have a metal outer part and will stretch the case over time.
I go to CARQUEST to get the proper National seal #321460.
The National seal is rubber coated on the outside and allows for proper expansion with the alloy case.
It is also a double lip seal.
I have been installing sand seals in cases using the Gene Berg tool and proper seal without a problem since the 1970s.
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Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
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