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nij_tp
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010
Posts: 140
Location: Amherst NH
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 Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:30 am Post subject: Are Syncro Springs different to 2WD springs? |
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Hi, are 4WD springs physically different from 2WD springs (front and rear). I am assuming that they sit taller but was wondering if they are different in how they sit (are the perches different)
Had a 30 min look using the search but could not see anything. Any info or pointer to other post gratefully accepted.
Thanks
_________________
1990 Vanagon GL _ Brunhilda (marked up as a Caravelle from new!) Just over 1/4 million miles, custom exhaust
1985 Vanagon GL - Josepha 140,000, Has a 2006 Forester 2.5 VVT custom exhaust
1989 Wolfsburg (Bluestar) - Walpurga
1989 Vanagon GL a parts bus
1984 Westralia
2006 Audi A4 2.0T with a unitronic tune
2007 Toyota Sequoia
1976 Mercury Capri 2.3l
1986 Honda Shadow VT700
2000 Suzuki Intruder VS800
1988 Kawasaki Voyager XII
2018 Chonda Hawk 250cc
1995 Subaru SVX (possible 3.3. swap) |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Yes.
The fronts do not swap, but the rears can be used in a 2wd if shimmed to level. |
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nij_tp
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010
Posts: 140
Location: Amherst NH
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for that speedy response.
_________________
1990 Vanagon GL _ Brunhilda (marked up as a Caravelle from new!) Just over 1/4 million miles, custom exhaust
1985 Vanagon GL - Josepha 140,000, Has a 2006 Forester 2.5 VVT custom exhaust
1989 Wolfsburg (Bluestar) - Walpurga
1989 Vanagon GL a parts bus
1984 Westralia
2006 Audi A4 2.0T with a unitronic tune
2007 Toyota Sequoia
1976 Mercury Capri 2.3l
1986 Honda Shadow VT700
2000 Suzuki Intruder VS800
1988 Kawasaki Voyager XII
2018 Chonda Hawk 250cc
1995 Subaru SVX (possible 3.3. swap) |
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presslab
Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2008
Posts: 1730
Location: Sonoma County
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:04 am Post subject: |
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The front springs are actually shorter (because of the Syncro's elevated spring perch), and they will physically fit on a 2WD. But they lower the van significantly, lower than a Carat. The rear springs will fit and are longer, but then the 2WD shocks aren't long enough and will top out harshly. You could put on the Syncro shocks but then your CV joints will be at a bad angle (worse than a Syncro) and they will wear out quickly.
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1986 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
1988 Subaru GL-10 EJ20G --- 2000 Honda XR650L
2010 Titus El Guapo --- 2011 On-One 456 Ti |
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Phishman068
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Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 1996
Location: Pittsburgh PA (ish)
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:07 am Post subject: |
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I'm actually planning to put 2wd front springs on my syncro and syncro front springs on my 2wd.
The plan is to use this to lift the syncro and lower the carat. I then plan to shim the rear springs on the syncro, and cut the carat springs on the 2wd.
They all fit together, supposedly. |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Sure, all these options work, BUT they are 20 year old USED springs.
There are plenty of brand new springs available to achieve whatever you are planning...and only one of the vendors sells a spring that is designed to lift, the others are designing for ride and road feel.
Just something to think about.
I sell a shit load of used springs....all being replaced with brand new ones  |
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presslab
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Joined: September 29, 2008
Posts: 1730
Location: Sonoma County
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Used springs aren't a big deal. Springs wear by "sacking out" or sagging; they do not become softer. If your used springs aren't sagging or badly rusted, I say run what you brung!
_________________
1986 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
1988 Subaru GL-10 EJ20G --- 2000 Honda XR650L
2010 Titus El Guapo --- 2011 On-One 456 Ti |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| presslab wrote: |
| Used springs aren't a big deal. Springs wear by "sacking out" or sagging; they do not become softer. If your used springs aren't sagging or badly rusted, I say run what you brung! |
The last three of four used spring sales for me were for vans that had the rear pigtails snapped right off.
It depends if you are using them for stock applications or engine converted, big bumper, extra spare tire and motorcycle hung off the rear types |
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BillM
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Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 1381
Location: Stonington,CT
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:33 am Post subject: |
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I have a set of the GoWesty lift springs on my 2wd. Sure it
looks like a wanna be syncro but I had issue with getting a
proper alignment. I "think" the problem with them is that
they put the front end at its limit for height. It's in this
area that very little changes in weight up front like
one pass versus two passengers causes huge changes
in alignment. A two wheel van is just not designed to
operate at this height without more changes like custom
upper control arms. Thankfully these items are available
but not what I really want to do at this time.
I want a more room for larger tires and a bit more ground
clearance but don't want to give up handling to accomplish
it. Lots of people have been happy with the GoWesty lift
springs but I can't get them to handle where I feel safe
letting my wife drive the Westy. I do know that a lot of this
is do to my inability to fine tune an alignment.
I am ordering another set of springs today and hope that
they will lift my van a little and provide a more stable ride.
I look forward to installing them and will post my results.
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Bill M
87 Westy |
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presslab
Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2008
Posts: 1730
Location: Sonoma County
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| insyncro wrote: |
The last three of four used spring sales for me were for vans that had the rear pigtails snapped right off.
It depends if you are using them for stock applications or engine converted, big bumper, extra spare tire and motorcycle hung off the rear types |
Yep my point was that just because they are used doesn't mean they are bad. By all means if you want a different spring rate then get different springs. I suspect you guys have more rust problems than we have over here in Cali.  A visual inspection should show that right away though.
| BillM wrote: |
| A two wheel van is just not designed to operate at this height without more changes like custom upper control arms. |
Yah I've mentioned it before but I believe that going any higher than 17" fender to hub on a 2WD is asking for problems.
_________________
1986 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
1988 Subaru GL-10 EJ20G --- 2000 Honda XR650L
2010 Titus El Guapo --- 2011 On-One 456 Ti
Last edited by presslab on Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:38 am; edited 2 times in total |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| BillM wrote: |
I have a set of the GoWesty lift springs on my 2wd. Sure it
looks like a wanna be syncro but I had issue with getting a
proper alignment. I "think" the problem with them is that
they put the front end at its limit for height. It's in this
area that very little changes in weight up front like
one pass versus two passengers causes huge changes
in alignment. A two wheel van is just not designed to
operate at this height without more changes like custom
upper control arms. Thankfully these items are available
but not what I really want to do at this time.
I want a more room for larger tires and a bit more ground
clearance but don't want to give up handling to accomplish
it. Lots of people have been happy with the GoWesty lift
springs but I can't get them to handle where I feel safe
letting my wife drive the Westy. I do know that a lot of this
is do to my inability to fine tune an alignment.
I am ordering another set of springs today and hope that
they will lift my van a little and provide a more stable ride.
I look forward to installing them and will post my results. |
Schwenk Springs  |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| presslab wrote: |
| insyncro wrote: |
The last three of four used spring sales for me were for vans that had the rear pigtails snapped right off.
It depends if you are using them for stock applications or engine converted, big bumper, extra spare tire and motorcycle hung off the rear types |
Yep my point was that just because they are used doesn't mean they are bad. By all means if you want a different spring rate then get different springs. I suspect you guys have more rust problems than we have over here in Cali. A visual inspection should show that right away though. |
FYI, all of the broken springs were from vans West of the Mississippi |
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BillM
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Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 1381
Location: Stonington,CT
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| insyncro wrote: |
Schwenk Springs |
Yep. I was originally supposed to be a beta tester for them
but fell through the cracks.
Only reason I gave the GoWesty ones
a try is I got them cheap from a person that could not get
them installed on his van. He was trying to use a cheap pair
of spring compressors and after destroying the powder coating.
Had the springs stuck on the compressor and jammed into
the upper springs mount area. One side of the cheap compressor
he was using had slipped around so they were both on one
side. After using a strong ratchet strap to prevent it from
exploding I was able to fit my "paddle" type compressor in
there and remove them. He didn't want anything to do with
them at that point. He gave them to me for bailing him out.
So I gave them a shot. If they worked out I was going to
have them recoated.
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Bill M
87 Westy |
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vanagonjr
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Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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BillM
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 1381
Location: Stonington,CT
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Yes,I do have them installed John. To explain a little better what I think
happens with the GoWesty springs.
I had the van aligned with 300lbs weight upfront per GoWesty
suggestion.
Weight out then me driving van 150lbs the toe changes because
the van is at different height then when aligned with the
300lbs.
Had van them aligned with just 150lbs they can't really get into
spec because van is to high.
This is where if I knew what I was doing could probley fine tune
the alignment so it would handle well. I will experiment now that
I have new springs on order.
I also wonder if I should leave the balljoints spacers on with
the new springs if it will help keep the camber more in the middle
of its adjustment range. I know some people don't like
spacers but I feel if properly installed using the proper
thread treatments and hardware they are safe.
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Bill M
87 Westy |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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No need for the spacers or aftermarket upper arms if you go with the SS.
They have been designed to allow for proper alignment, without the need for additional parts.
That goes for SS Syncro springs as well. |
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