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vincentvangoh
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2012
Posts: 19
Location: Hells Canyon Country, OR
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 Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:11 pm Post subject: Sagging butt syndrome know how? |
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Hey Folks,
I know this is actually an old topic, but I was wondering if any of you can point me to a "how too" thread on adjusting the rear end of my 78. It has sagged over the years and needs a boost. Something with step by step pics would really float my boat.
Thanks in advance.
Steve |
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Desertbusman
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 14654
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Do you have your service manual to know how it should be set up?
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71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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obnoxiousblue
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 3037
Location: Commack, NY
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8586
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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I find there is a very easy casual method of just trying it. You go, lets say, one down on the outside go up on the inside, what happened? Try it in reverse. What happened? After only three or four increments, I am at the golden 23*.
Colin
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Stuartzickefoose
Samba Post Whore
Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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keep an eye out, as im planning on posting up a how to/DIY on the rear wheel bearings, because i couldnt find any information on them at all when i went to do them, and figure someone will need the help later. when i make that thread, ill also be mentioning the basics of the adjustment (the physical how to, without numbers and such) just so people have an idea of what gets adjusted.
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Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
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obnoxiousblue
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 3037
Location: Commack, NY
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Colin, my worry is getting the bus back n the ground ony to find now its no longer level side to side haha.
Would be nice if someone had a photo marked with arrows indicating the direction and the result for both sides.
Ive yet to look this up in my fancy new green book, as I'm dealing with your wiper refresh and some metal work around m windscreen at the moment.
Stuart, when you do, pics! I'm curious to; if I'm facing the bus, on the passenger side for example turning the torsion bar clockwise causes what, I think lower...
Likewise, there are also splines on the outside. I understand that earlier in the procedure, the parts were marked for reassembly but what relation is the outer splines to the position of the spring plate?
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52718
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| obnoxiousblue wrote: |
Colin, my worry is getting the bus back n the ground ony to find now its no longer level side to side haha.
Would be nice if someone had a photo marked with arrows indicating the direction and the result for both sides.
Ive yet to look this up in my fancy new green book, as I'm dealing with your wiper refresh and some metal work around m windscreen at the moment.
Stuart, when you do, pics! I'm curious to; if I'm facing the bus, on the passenger side for example turning the torsion bar clockwise causes what, I think lower...
Likewise, there are also splines on the outside. I understand that earlier in the procedure, the parts were marked for reassembly but what relation is the outer splines to the position of the spring plate? |
As Colin says it is much easier than it seems once you get in there. It is truly hard to screw it up. The homemade gauge that I came up with eliminates the math. You just have to cut the angle correctly and and then cut the clearances so that it fits correctly against the frame.
I don't remember if this is the gauge board I made up for a bus or a Thing. The angle is cut to what is given in the manual and you set it against the frame and then compare the angle of the swing arm with the angle cut on the board. It might even be possible to just draw a line on the board and not do the angle cut, though you would still have to do the clearancing to get it to fit against the frame. It is not necessary to level the vehicle when using this style of gauge.
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Stuartzickefoose
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Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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iv seen you post that board up tons of times, and i never quite understood it till just now... 
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Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13627
Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
| iv seen you post that board up tons of times, and i never quite understood it till just now... |
x2.
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One-on-one tech help for your vintage Volkswagen:
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Road trip reports and tech blog:
https://www.patreon.com/airschooled |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8586
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| obnoxiousblue wrote: |
| Colin, my worry is getting the bus back n the ground ony to find now its no longer level side to side haha. |
You will be fine if you get your chintzy little protractor to come up with the same angle on each side.
| obnoxiousblue wrote: |
I'm curious too; if I'm facing the bus, on the passenger side for example turning the torsion bar clockwise causes what, I think lower...
Likewise, there are also splines on the outside. I understand that earlier in the procedure, the parts were marked for reassembly but what relation is the outer splines to the position of the spring plate? |
Anything that makes the spring plate droop lower is going to raise the car. Do not get tangled up over which way you are moving the spring plate in relation to the torsion bar vs which way you are moving the torsion bar inside the tube, that all is just in the service of getting the exact angle you want. Because the inside splines move the bar a different number of degrees than the outside splines, you can adjust very specifically just by turning them in opposite directions, like UP 7 outside DOWN 6 inside moves the bar only 52 minutes of rotation . . . which way? I DON'T KNOW go experiment!
Then repeat the procedure as necessary, or reverse the directions, don't overthink it! I don't even match-mark the bar to the spring plate, why do I care what the current reading is? I'm there, I got it apart, it is GOING back at 23*.
Colin
(I have a write-up that I need to complete, with photographs, performed in the Arizona desert in January 2011 on the BobD.
I had to re-lower it, because someone thought "I'll just raise it a spline so I can see out the rear view mirror!" well, ask the CV joints how they like that . . . )
Car Tilt 4*
Spring Plate Tilt 19 1/2* because the tilt of the car "is taking away" from my 23* the extra half degree, I don't care:
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13627
Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Amskeptic wrote: |
someone thought "I'll just raise it a spline so I can see out the rear view mirror!" well, ask the CV joints how they like that . . . )
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One of these four also solves that problem 
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Road trip reports and tech blog:
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Stuartzickefoose
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Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| Amskeptic wrote: |
someone thought "I'll just raise it a spline so I can see out the rear view mirror!" well, ask the CV joints how they like that . . . )
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One of these four also solves that problem
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i have the third one...it helps 
cept it tends to be right in my sight line too, and like the blue tint, its annoying to look over and the mirror is in the way. 
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Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8586
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
One of these four also solves that problem
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Does your '69 have the long stalk style? Perfect for rear view.
Alas, I am in post-safety-regulation 1970 and 1978 buses which dictate that it is better to see out the front than behind us, so they raised the mirror out of our primary view. If I was a lobbyist in 1970, I would have demanded an exemption for all VW buses, "whereupon it is far more critical for aforementioned 57 gross/48 net horsepower 'bus pilots' to see what maniac is about to crazily drive up their rear bumper."
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Last edited by Amskeptic on Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13627
Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Amskeptic wrote: |
| asiab3 wrote: |
One of these four also solves that problem
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Does your '69 have the long stalk style? Perfect for rear view.
Alas, I am in a safety regulation 1970 and a 1978 which dictate that is better to see out front than behind you, so they raised the mirror out of your primary view. I, if I was a lobbyist in 1970, would have demanded an exemption for all VW buses, "whereupon it is far more critical for aforementioned 57 gross/48 net horsepower 'bus pilots' to see what maniac is about to crazily drive up their rear bumper." |
Yep! I didn't know how sweet I had it until someone tried to buy it from me… I also found an ok quality post at a swap without the mirror parts, and got an "anti-dazzle" (day/night) mirror from a Vanagon to fit perfectly. It's great for 48 net horsepower and 48 nighttime horsepower through the I-10.
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Road trip reports and tech blog:
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Stuartzickefoose
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Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| Amskeptic wrote: |
| asiab3 wrote: |
One of these four also solves that problem
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Does your '69 have the long stalk style? Perfect for rear view.
Alas, I am in a safety regulation 1970 and a 1978 which dictate that is better to see out front than behind you, so they raised the mirror out of your primary view. I, if I was a lobbyist in 1970, would have demanded an exemption for all VW buses, "whereupon it is far more critical for aforementioned 57 gross/48 net horsepower 'bus pilots' to see what maniac is about to crazily drive up their rear bumper." |
Yep! I didn't know how sweet I had it until someone tried to buy it from me… I also found an ok quality post at a swap without the mirror parts, and got an "anti-dazzle" (day/night) mirror from a Vanagon to fit perfectly. It's great for 48 net horsepower and 48 nighttime horsepower through the I-10. |
i used my old mirror, and got a post for free from ken at busco because he didnt think i could get the mirror to work well...jam a piece of cardboard into the lil ball hole, and the thing got nice n snug and works perfect 
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Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52718
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
| iv seen you post that board up tons of times, and i never quite understood it till just now... |
It is really easy to use. No adding or subtracting angles. Plus the angle cut is so long it is very obvious how much and which way the spring plate is off. Guess I should take a picture of it in use someday. |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13627
Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
| iv seen you post that board up tons of times, and i never quite understood it till just now... |
It is really easy to use. No adding or subtracting angles. Plus the angle cut is so long it is very obvious how much and which way the spring plate is off. Guess I should take a picture of it in use someday. |
Or if it is the kind of thing you only do once (as per Colin) then maybe you could "part it forward" to us bus kids around the country 
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One-on-one tech help for your vintage Volkswagen:
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Road trip reports and tech blog:
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Stuartzickefoose
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Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
| iv seen you post that board up tons of times, and i never quite understood it till just now... |
It is really easy to use. No adding or subtracting angles. Plus the angle cut is so long it is very obvious how much and which way the spring plate is off. Guess I should take a picture of it in use someday. |
Or if it is the kind of thing you only do once (as per Colin) then maybe you could "part it forward" to us bus kids around the country |
x2....i agree...part it forward to us broke bum college kids.
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Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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cdennisg
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20984
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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I bought a protractor, used it once, then decided it wasn't worth the time even doing the math. I just measure from the floor of my shop up to the bottom of the spring plate with everything at rest. Then adjust a few clicks either way (using a combo if inside/outside splines), measure for the desired change in height, and reassemble. Set it on the ground, drive around, and if it looks right leave it alone. If it needs more tweakin', I pull it apart and tweak it a little. The process really isn't that difficult, and once you have done it the first time, the next few times get much easier.
I've done several this way, and it hasn't failed me yet. Works for split buses and any old beetles, too. If you are a stickler for perfection, you could measure the angle of the axle to check that your CV's can take the angle at full droop, and check the camber of the rear wheel. Those are more important than a specific spring plate angle, in my opinion.
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Confusious say it takes it takes two wipes to know you need three, but it takes three wipes to know it only needed two. |
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fusername
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Joined: March 15, 2006
Posts: 2899
Location: Boston MA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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obnoxious blue, its a lot easer than it sounds! next time I do it, I'm gonna spend the extra 20 bucks and go buy me one of those magnetic DIGITAL protractors. You would think with all the tubing I bend I would have justified the cost of one of those by now, but NEVER underestimate my cheap arsedness. I am a wonder in my own mind. The nice thing about the digital ones is you can ZERO them, none of this "was it add 1.5 degress or subract 1.5?" bs after 10 hours and 500$ worth of tubing bending or torsion adjusting
and really, the bars are a lot less fussy than I expected, yet I still get them to within .25 degrees. cause I can. and I hate myself.
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Need something custom bent up? shoot me an email, maybe we can make it work!
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| obnoxiousblue wrote: |
| Maybe Ben Pon's ghost comes and vomits NOS stampings for your bus, but not mine! |
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