Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Premium Membership  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
TYPE 3 1600cc after rebuild to much compression?
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
exoo
Samba Member


Joined: September 20, 2013
Posts: 8
Location: The Netherlands
exoo is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject: TYPE 3 1600cc after rebuild to much compression? Reply with quote

Hello Guy's
My name is Niels and owner of a type 3 notchback 1971 freshly repainted in her original color diamant-zweischicht marathonblau L96m, love it!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Because of her age and unknow past i decided to overhaul the engine. Engine was running before i took it apart. Crankshaft, big end(pistonrod) bearings incuding campshaft and followes have been changed by original standaard ones. Also the piston rings are renewed. After i have fitted back the cilinderliners and heads i noticed that the cilinders are building up quit some compression. Not able yet to test the pressure because tool is on order.
My crankmotor (startmotor) isn't rotating that fast without ignitionsparks on, with them installed he get stuck because of compression. During my build up i continuosly checked the free play of crankshaft. With a rachet iam able to turn the motor freely and with sparkssplugs inside is can push true the compression. The crank turns with a wrench not hard but to hard to turn by hand.
Without any sparkplug

Link

With 4 sparplugs fitted inside.

Link


Last edited by exoo on Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Danwvw
Samba Member


Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8895
Location: Oregon Coast
Danwvw is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: TYPE 3 1600cc after rebuild to much compression? Reply with quote

Yes that looks about right! All you can do really to know the compression is to measure it when it's apart! CC the heads, Measure the Deck run the numbers through a engine calculator.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Twitter Gallery Classifieds Feedback
67rustavenger
Samba Member


Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 11527
Location: Oregon
67rustavenger is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: TYPE 3 1600cc after rebuild to much compression? Reply with quote

X2 Looks right to me as well.
Can you start the engine out of the car?
If not install it and get it running.

I love Notch Backs. Cool I wish I could afford one.

Good Luck.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!
2003 Astrovan? GFYS again, Xevin! Wink
Don't let your bad ideas remain, ideas!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ach60 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: May 14, 2001
Posts: 4137
Location: Santa Maria
ach60 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: TYPE 3 1600cc after rebuild to much compression? Reply with quote

You built it, so what are these numbers?
Deck height =______
CC of heads (Combustion Camber Volume) =_____
Bore=______
Stroke=_____
Do you have a photo of the Combustion Camber side of the heads?
That would be helpful to know if you still have the step in the heads.
With all of this information you should have calculated the compression ratio of the engine.
http://cbperformance.com/v/enginecalc.html
That way at least we would know that you didn't build a completely stock engine,
but ended up with some crazy high compression because of a machining/assembly error.
My guess is the compression ratio is fine, but the motor is tight.
Your starter is weak, or battery doesn't have enough juice to spin the motor.
Sometimes with tight motors we had to pull start them with another car, once the engine is installed in the car.
_________________
Good Luck
Al
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
exoo
Samba Member


Joined: September 20, 2013
Posts: 8
Location: The Netherlands
exoo is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:05 am    Post subject: Re: TYPE 3 1600cc after rebuild to much compression? Reply with quote

I did not measure the cc of the cilinderheads. I thought that wouldn't be necessary because nothing was machined only cleaned and new piston rings installed.
Axial clearance of crankshaft is 0.12mm and camshaft 0.05mm. When both halves were fitted back, the crankshaft was rotating freely and the resistance came when pistons with new rings were installed.
Here foto of cilinders with cleaned pistons.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

cilinderhead cleaned.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The combustion chamber where the cilinderhead meets the cilinderliner is flat. When i took it apart there was no filling ring, so i installed it back without.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Dale M.
Samba Member


Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20896
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
Dale M. is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: TYPE 3 1600cc after rebuild to much compression? Reply with quote

I think you are showing anxiety over nothing, its going to be really hard to get excess compression with stock replacement pistons and cylinders and reusing "cleaned up heads"... Yes there will be noticeable difference how a old tired engine turns over under compression and a fresh assembled with new parts, that is the point of actually rebuild... As long as there is no binding as engine turns over with sparkplugs out there should not be a issue when you start it...

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33450
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: TYPE 3 1600cc after rebuild to much compression? Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:
I think you are showing anxiety over nothing, its going to be really hard to get excess compression with stock replacement pistons and cylinders and reusing "cleaned up heads"... Yes there will be noticeable difference how a old tired engine turns over under compression and a fresh assembled with new parts, that is the point of actually rebuild... As long as there is no binding as engine turns over with sparkplugs out there should not be a issue when you start it...

Dale


Agree.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
exoo
Samba Member


Joined: September 20, 2013
Posts: 8
Location: The Netherlands
exoo is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: TYPE 3 1600cc after rebuild to much compression? Reply with quote

First i would like to thank you guys for the advises. Very helpfull.
Today i took a new view against my problem. First i rewired the starter with bigger mm2 and also recharged the battery and guess what, turning good with sparks plugs inside.
Engine started and ignition timing had to be adjusted. 7.5 degree before TDC. Engine have runned for about 2 hours without any problem. Now it can be mounted back inside the car.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2025, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.