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Caqfatboy
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2005
Posts: 407
Location: Jupiter, Florida / Denver, Colorado
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 Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:48 am Post subject: Generator Light |
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I've had a few electrical problems that i am working out, but the most recent issue is the generator light. I've searched a couple of threads on the subject, but am confused. My generator light does not light when the connection is removed from the speedo, i'm assuming it gets its power from the speedo, hence the light works - Or - should the light work (when key is turned on) regardless of (bulb holder) being inserted into the speedo? When (bulb holder) inserted into speedo with key on the light then works....BTW this is a 71 Super Beetle....Any help? Also, is there a quick way to test voltage regulator (under rear seat) to eliminate it, and generator? Generator brushes are fine...
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2239
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:52 am Post subject: Re: Generator Light |
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| Caqfatboy wrote: |
| I've had a few electrical problems that i am working out, but the most recent issue is the generator light. I've searched a couple of threads on the subject, but am confused. My generator light does not light when the connection is removed from the speedo, i'm assuming it gets its power from the speedo, hence the light works - Or - should the light work (when key is turned on) regardless of (bulb holder) being inserted into the speedo? When (bulb holder) inserted into speedo with key on the light then works....BTW this is a 71 Super Beetle....Any help? Also, is there a quick way to test voltage regulator (under rear seat) to eliminate it, and generator? Generator brushes are fine... |
Could you clarify?
It sounds like what you're saying is "my generator light works when it's connected to power and doesn't work when it isn't connected to power" which of course is the way it should be. |
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Caqfatboy
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2005
Posts: 407
Location: Jupiter, Florida / Denver, Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Generator Light |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
| Caqfatboy wrote: |
| I've had a few electrical problems that i am working out, but the most recent issue is the generator light. I've searched a couple of threads on the subject, but am confused. My generator light does not light when the connection is removed from the speedo, i'm assuming it gets its power from the speedo, hence the light works - Or - should the light work (when key is turned on) regardless of (bulb holder) being inserted into the speedo? When (bulb holder) inserted into speedo with key on the light then works....BTW this is a 71 Super Beetle....Any help? Also, is there a quick way to test voltage regulator (under rear seat) to eliminate it, and generator? Generator brushes are fine... |
Could you clarify?
It sounds like what you're saying is "my generator light works when it's connected to power and doesn't work when it isn't connected to power" which of course is the way it should be. |
Sorry, good point, the generator light stays on - So i'm asking for a test process to test generator and voltage regulator ( in car)...Also could the light remain on if there is a ground issue?
_________________
70 Beetle (Standard)
65 Beetle (Project)
65 Beetle - R.I.P.
67 Beetle - R.I.P.
68 Beetle - R.I.P.
71 Beetle - R.I.P. (Super)
74 Beetle - R.I.P (Standard)
71 Beetle (Super)
70 Beetle (Standard)
It is what it is!!!!! |
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gp98
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2010
Posts: 225
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Check voltage at battery while car off, then start car and check voltage again at idle. This part you may need assistance, check voltage at battery while revving engine, it should raise to 14 volts or so while idle up. If not you can also do do further items if this shows n/g. Generator can be polarized and tested for max voltage in car but start here is a good beginning. Keep us posted as you go, many others will be of assistance as always I,m sure. Good Luck 
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1972 Super Beetle
1961 Dune Buggy,2010 Larz Anderson Class Winner
1971 BSA Lighting
1969 tin top westy |
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gp98
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2010
Posts: 225
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Check voltage at battery while car off, then start car and check voltage again at idle. This part you may need assistance, check voltage at battery while revving engine, it should raise to 14 volts or so while idle up. If not you can also do do further items if this shows n/g. Generator can be polarized and tested for max voltage in car but start here is a good beginning. Keep us posted as you go, many others will be of assistance as always I,m sure. Good Luck
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1972 Super Beetle
1961 Dune Buggy,2010 Larz Anderson Class Winner
1971 BSA Lighting
1969 tin top westy |
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gp98
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2010
Posts: 225
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Excuse double post, computer issue
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1972 Super Beetle
1961 Dune Buggy,2010 Larz Anderson Class Winner
1971 BSA Lighting
1969 tin top westy |
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Cadaver
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012
Posts: 2338
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Generator Light |
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71 SUPER.. THIS IS EASY. but cant under stand the symptoms
in fact you skipped that .....
| Caqfatboy wrote: |
I've had a few electrical problems that i am working out, but the most recent issue is the generator light. I've searched a couple of threads on the subject, but am confused. My generator light does not light when the connection is removed from the speedo,
nor is it supposed to.
the schematic is in Technical wiring in the tab above. so why assume?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bug_super_71.jpg
i'm assuming it gets its power from the speedo, YES hence the light works - Or - should the light work (when key is turned on) YES regardless of (bulb holder) being inserted into the speedo? ( the holder if missing means the lamp is missing sure the lamp goes dead when missing....)
OK, the lamp has 12v on one side (in speedo power daisy chain to lamps) and the gen REG grounds
the 61 wire (blue) and the lamp glows. key ON)
its that simple. (externally )
key on the lamp glows, not works. (some folks have funny notions on works)
it goes out, above 805 crank RPM if the gen /reg./battery are good.
a voltmeter is vastly better in the dash to any idiot lamp.
When (bulb holder) inserted into speedo, with key on, the light then works....
GLOWS?
BTW this is a 71 Super Beetle....Any help? Also, is there a quick way to test voltage regulator (under rear seat) to eliminate it, and generator? Generator brushes are fine... |
sure is.
you read the bentleys and do the generator only test.
if that passes the reg is bad
easy huh?
ive posted the way 100 times on this forum
there are safety steps if using the engine to test the gen.
but you can do it with an electric drill, ill pretend you down have tools but one voltmeter
1: remove battery minus lug.
2: remove both wires from from gen.
3: tape up the wires, called safe'ing off the wires....
4: gen is now devoid wires.
5: ground the DF pin with a jumper wire.
this is called full fielding the gen
6: battery minus back on.
7:start car.
D+ pin is at 6v at idle 800-900 crank RPM.
D+ pin is at 18v at 1666 RPM crank RPM (about)
if this test passes, you just passed step 4 , in bentleys page S10-P23
missing in the Bentleys (shame) is my test. call it 4a.
now remove the DF jumper
the gen goes to about 1v or less. if it sticks high, the field is bad.
if both tests pass.
then the reg is bad, or wired wrong. (dead charging)
there are other tests under load but are very tricky and will not say them.
cheers.
5 bugs and no books? really?
there are 2 regs under that seat.
original Dinosaur type. (relay box)
and new bosch electronic, i highly recommend this... makes battery last longer too.
just dont let any metal it case of new regs... boom....
here is one test you forgot
key on , see gen glow.?
pull the reg, #61 lug from REG pin ,see lamp go out.?
now you know WHO glows that lamp ,(the blue wire)
if that fails (61 test)then some goon swapped gen and oil.
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in Samba classifieds....1968 T1. |
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Caqfatboy
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2005
Posts: 407
Location: Jupiter, Florida / Denver, Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Generator Light |
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| candymustang66 wrote: |
71 SUPER.. THIS IS EASY. but cant under stand the symptoms
in fact you skipped that .....
| Caqfatboy wrote: |
I've had a few electrical problems that i am working out, but the most recent issue is the generator light. I've searched a couple of threads on the subject, but am confused. My generator light does not light when the connection is removed from the speedo,
nor is it supposed to.
the schematic is in Technical wiring in the tab above. so why assume?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bug_super_71.jpg
i'm assuming it gets its power from the speedo, YES hence the light works - Or - should the light work (when key is turned on)
YES regardless of (bulb holder) being inserted into the speedo? ( the holder if missing means the lamp is missing sure the lamp goes dead when missing....)
OK, the lamp has 12v on one side (in speedo power daisy chain to lamps) and the gen REG grounds
the 61 wire (blue) and the lamp glows. key ON)
its that simple. (externally )
key on the lamp glows, not works. (some folks have funny notions on works)
it goes out, above 805 crank RPM if the gen /reg./battery are good.
a voltmeter is vastly better in the dash to any idiot lamp.
When (bulb holder) inserted into speedo, with key on, the light then works....
GLOWS?
BTW this is a 71 Super Beetle....Any help? Also, is there a quick way to test voltage regulator (under rear seat) to eliminate it, and generator? Generator brushes are fine... |
sure is.
you read the bentleys and do the generator only test.
if that passes the reg is bad
easy huh?
ive posted the way 100 times on this forum
there are safety steps if using the engine to test the gen.
but you can do it with an electric drill, ill pretend you down have tools but one voltmeter
1: remove battery minus lug.
2: remove both wires from from gen.
3: tape up the wires, called safe'ing off the wires....
4: gen is now devoid wires.
5: ground the DF pin with a jumper wire.
this is called full fielding the gen
6: battery minus back on.
7:start car.
D+ pin is at 6v at idle 800-900 crank RPM.
D+ pin is at 18v at 1666 RPM crank RPM (about)
if this test passes, you just passed step 4 , in bentleys page S10-P23
missing in the Bentleys (shame) is my test. call it 4a.
now remove the DF jumper
the gen goes to about 1v or less. if it sticks high, the field is bad.
if both tests pass.
then the reg is bad, or wired wrong. (dead charging)
there are other tests under load but are very tricky and will not say them.
cheers.
5 bugs and no books? really?
there are 2 regs under that seat.
original Dinosaur type. (relay box)
and new bosch electronic, i highly recommend this... makes battery last longer too.
just dont let any metal it case of new regs... boom....
here is one test you forgot
key on , see gen glow.?
pull the reg, #61 lug from REG pin ,see lamp go out.?
now you know WHO glows that lamp ,(the blue wire)
if that fails (61 test)then some goon swapped gen and oil. |
Thanks for all the help! Turns out the regulator is bad, and it probably helped the generator go south...
BTW - I do have a couple of Bentley books, but am electrically challenged...Or wasn't one of my strongest interests way back when...Gradually making up for lost time...
_________________
70 Beetle (Standard)
65 Beetle (Project)
65 Beetle - R.I.P.
67 Beetle - R.I.P.
68 Beetle - R.I.P.
71 Beetle - R.I.P. (Super)
74 Beetle - R.I.P (Standard)
71 Beetle (Super)
70 Beetle (Standard)
It is what it is!!!!! |
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Cadaver
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012
Posts: 2338
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:05 am Post subject: |
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GREAT ! a simple fix,,,,,, a new REG.
the bentleys does a poor job. here
6 diff gen's/alt's. ? internal ,external, bosch , motorola.
and skips tests. they do not start simple and work up to harder tests.
they show using a 500 to 1000 watt carbon pile load bank test.
GOT PILES 
that's great, but you can use the battery as a load. (i wont show you, takes a high end. ammeter)
my video page shows the gen tests, in the safest way.
on car
off car
no battery at all.
6v
slow drill hits 6v easy, more RPM more volts. (Faraday laws)
http://ac-vw-remove.com/My_Videos/gen-tests/M2U00196.html
its not just electric its both that and mechanical
i fuss over bearings more than electric.
that old reg, is a relic, id not run them, and for sure china clones of that relic. if it goes nuts and goes to 20vdc, you blow up all lamps. and the radio.
i run this ,for good reasons
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?part...term=30019
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in Samba classifieds....1968 T1. |
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builtbychevy
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2012
Posts: 42
Location: san diego
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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'67 squareback
I just replaced the regulator with a new solid state. i installed new bushes. I installed a new field wire. I check polarization and it spins clockwise. I have ammeter installed. With car running it shows 4amps, turn headlights on it shows negative 10 amps. Red light is still on. I have 12 volts max and steady at battery. I completed all of your full field tests. The generator is good and makes max of 24 volts. The custom wire harness is good and new. @ blue wire on reg with car running is 2.3v. Now what?
Either the new Bosch solid state regulator is bad or you have more tests?
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Dirty Racing & Rods
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