Subaru 5mt axle length issues

[Franklinstower]

I installed the recommended 20.5 in automatic axles in my 5mt conversion, and I have now pulled the axle out of the CV twice as if the axle is too short? (Only on the left side) anybody else run into this situation? I'm thinking about moving my subaflange inward and going with the longer 21 and 1/2 in axle.

I think my engine sits 3/8 of an inch to the right side making the left side axle slightly too short. However I would like to know how to measure for the optimal axle length.
Thanks for any input.
Paul
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'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
YITB

[wcdennis]

Did you get the instructions to shift the transmission to the second set of threaded mounting holes (the ones that the auto transmission would use)? This moves the transmission about 1 inch toward the drivers' side. I wasn't given that detail until I had everything mounted up, which meant that I had to drill a second hole for the shift linkage to go through. You can see where the transmission mount was relocated in the photos below.

Hopefully, that solves your issue. The 20.5" axels are perfect on my conversion.

[Franklinstower]

That's the first I've heard of that?

If that moves it towards the driver's side approximately and inch why couldn't you just use the standard 21.5 in manual transmission axle on that side, and leave the mount in its original location? Or does that then put the axle too tight on the passenger side.

Could you reference me the directions you are speaking of?
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
YITB

[wcdennis]

Apparently, the 5 speed mount was aligned with the auto trans mounting holes. When I bolted mine in, I noticed that the engine was cocked with the body and raised my concern in an email, this is the reply I got:

[Franklinstower]

Looking towards the back, the centerline of my bushing is 12 5/8" from the drivers side and about 11" from the passenger side. Measured from the inside of the trailing arm brackets.

Any chance you could verify your measurements for me?

I'm using the subarugears mount, so it might be slightly different than the 5speed bus mount.
Thanks!
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
YITB

[wcdennis]

In the photo I posted above, I made a mark that matched the split in the transmission case. You can see it is 11-3/8 from the trailing arm on the passenger side. If I’m remembering correctly, it is slightly longer on the other side, but not much. I will check tomorrow.

[wcdennis]

I think we need to figure out if your transmission mount has the same offset as mine. I ran a string right along the transmission split back to the mount. Here you can see where this centerline falls on the mount.

Here is the measurement of the offset on the mount.

The is the distance to that string from the trailing arms.

You can see that the centerline is a little over 1/4" toward the passenger side.
Dave told me this was on purpose, to match the 10mm offset that VW used. I would think, with the Subaru set-up, you would want everything centered, but 10mm is pretty small and I do have the engine centered, so the difference at the axle flanges is even less.

[Franklinstower]

okay, so it appears using the Subaru gear mount puts the trans mount in a different position, but overall the center of the trans is nearly identical to where yours is centered:

Passenger side (11.5 inches from inboard the trailing arm mount) and drivers side Just shy of 12" from inboard the trailing arm mount:

So if my centerline measurements are nearly identical to your centerline measurements, why do I keep pulling the axle out of the CV on the drivers side?

I am getting tired of this:

_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
YITB

[wcdennis]

Are the axels at an extreme angle? Your van does not look like it has been lifted (as in taller springs), so I'm guessing not.

Did you actually measure the axles you sourced? Could they be shorter 20.5 inches?

Could it be something as simple as a missing circlip?

[Franklinstower]

yes, I measured the overall axle length at 20.5" and my van is not lifted. I have even measured the wheel flange to trans flange - at full droop I measured exactly 20.5" (bottom of wheel flange to bottom of trans flange)

The axles have the circlips. When it comes apart, the CV inner race stays on the axle, the inner race actually pulls out of the cage with the balls. (the housing of course is bolted to the trans flange)

The last time this happened, I was just completing a successful 50 mile I5 test cruise, made one of my final turns - a left-hander coming off a slight incline - grabbed second and "POP" the cv came apart and I had no gears.

The two times this has happened, it has separated on the trans side, not the wheel side and both times on the drivers side.

Possibly just a faulty CV joint? These were APWI brand as it seems the EMPI's are no longer made, The other brand I have found were Surtrak.
If someone has a 20.5" axle, I do have a set of original CV's I could install and try....

Paul
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
YITB

[wcdennis]

I think you have a bad CV joint. It makes no sense that one could just come apart. When I was sourcing the short axles, my goal was to find the stock versions, because I had heard that the aftermarket ones don't last long. These were the hardest parts I have had to track down in a while, but maybe it was worth the trouble.

[Franklinstower]

[Franklinstower]

Okay - I believe my problem is solved. The culprit - shitty Chinese axles/CV joints.

I used the shitty Chinese bare axle and put on a spare set of Lobro's I had laying around. I discovered there is no way you should be able to pull the inner race out of the cage and outer CV housing, yet the shitty Chinese CV can do just that with thumb pressure. The CV's should be self centering and the one that came apart would just eventually work its way to the extreme and then pull apart.

I haven't changed out the CV's on the other side yet. I am hoping to find some axles to put real CV's on. I can't trust that the Chinese axles are going to last....
If anyone has a couple of 20.5" oe axles, I will buy them. I also have spare manual axles for trade too.

Thanks again WCDennis for confirming my tranny measurements are within spec.
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
YITB

[MarkWard]

I have 2 sets of complete automatic cv shafts I removed from 2 automatic vans. One aircooled van and one watercooled. PM me if interested.

[vwjoel]

@ Franklinstower, I'm glad I found your thread about this issue. I just finished my TDI conversion on a Subarugears trans and the left inner CV came apart on my first hard acceleration. Did you end up installing German axle shafts? Has the issue been solved? Thanks!

Looks like I got the trans mount in the correct holes

I also bought the APWI brand axle assemblies.

[Franklinstower]

Joel,
I think I had two issues. One being the cheap CV Joints. I switched out those APWI joints for a set of Lobro's, but used the APWI axles. I also switched the flange position. My subaflanges had two holes for the roll pin. I switched them to the other hole so the flange is farther out. Since those two changes, I have not had an issue.

Picture of the drive flange before I changed it:

I asked Todd at SubaruGears which hole to use. This was his reply:

[vwjoel]

Thanks, this is good info. I took apart the APWI axle that had come apart and found that it was missing the spacers over the splines meant to hold the CV hub out against the C clip. The CVs hubs could slide back and forth 1/4" each effectively shortening the axle. Also, like you found, the joints themselves were very loose. if held flat by the outer race the inner hub, cage and balls would just fall out. I made some spacers and installed some worn Lobro joints I had on hand on the APWI axles. My Subaflanges only have one hole for the roll pin, looks like the same as the hole you're in now. So far it drives great and no more sadness on acceleration. In the next few months I'll invest in some nice joints from T3Technique. Thanks for your reply.

[MarkWard]

Looking at the last picture, I wouldn’t expect to see the balls. Ideally without the boot installed, I’d want it all to look flush. This would give you the most travel in or out.

[vanis13]

[MarkWard]

It’s not often we get to see a CV joint/shaft installed without a boot. And yes, suspension travel unknown, it’s hard to predict. I like to see the balls operating a close to center on the ramps. You can use the boot to assist in that. But in the picture I referenced, the joint appears to be at or very near to the end of out travel. And earlier the cage was cracked from some outward force. The inner race also looked like the outer edges are damaged on a couple ramps.

Edit: do I see pitting on the balls of the failed joint? Hard to believe they had only a few miles on them. A pitted ball is very rare compared to pitted ramps that I see more often.