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High Oil Pressure even after warmup
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tolstoy
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject: High Oil Pressure even after warmup Reply with quote

Hey guys. Trying to get the bus shaped up for the first family trip in a couple of weeks with my wife, 18month old and 3 year old. I don't get the bus out much over the last several years due to a lack of time and she's not my daily driver. A few years ago I took it upon myself to fix up some little things on the engine. Replaced all the engine tin with good factory VW tin making sure everything was there including the flaps, Hoover bit, and seals. Replaced the cheap aftermarket pulleys with the BMD pulley system, replaced the header/single quietpack exhaust with a original style exhaust that I had ceramic coated. Replaced the worn brosol carb with a rebuilt german unit, and replaced the incorrect distributor with the SVDA from aircooled.net with the pertronix installed. When done she ran smoother than ever! Took it to a good local shop last summer just to have them check my work......wasn't completely confident in my carb/timing adjustments.

Haven't had it out much since then, but I do remember the one trip we took which was about an hour drive away in late July that the oil pressure seemed awfully high. Highway driving had my gauge sitting around 60psi at speed with stints of nearing 80psi or more. Well, in getting ready for this trip I drove a few blocks and even after a sufficient warm up the pressure under load would almost peg the gauge and I could feel the bus sputter in conjuction with the needle on my gauge until I let off the gas.

I changed the oil and filter "probably worthless oil cooler mounted filter, but it's always been there since I had the bus". Maybe the shop put to much oil in or my filter was bad? Don't know for sure at this point because in trying to take the damn old oil filter off I pulled a couple of wires off my coil and in my hurry mixed up the wires for the ignition and tach causing me to fry the pertronix. I just got a replacement pertronix that I will install today to get her running again. Then I can see if my pressure problem is solved by putting in the correct amount of oil and replacing the filter.

If still high pressure....what next? Oil pressure relief valves? Any other recommendations? Got to get this thing going and confident before we leave for a trip that takes us 4-6hrs away from home for some camping and water parks in Wisconsin.

Tolstoy
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What weight oil are you running? Oils in the 10w30 or 5w40 range should be fine. Yes the relief valve(s) can stick. Assuming you have a dual relief engine there is a valve on the pulley end of the engine that bypasses cold oil around the cooler and a valve forward (as it sits in the car) that relieve excess flow. The nomenclature that VW uses for these valves is wacky and creates confusion as to what their function is.
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tolstoy
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No clue what was in there as that is what the shop put in, and the problem seems (if my memory serves me correctly) to originate right after it came from the shop. I use Aeroshell SAE40 weight Hopefully once I swap out the pad Pertronix I can take her for a spin and determine if it was the oil or not now that I know what is in there and how much.

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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So is this your 1971 Bus with the 66 front clip? Type 1 Stroker? That straight weight 40w motor oil is the reason for the high pressure! Run 10W-40 or Straight 20w oil unless it's above 90 degrees outside air temp there all the time your driving it. Then when you start it let it warm up without revving the engine. You don't want oil pressure over 60 warm or 80 when it's cold. So just don't rev it when your exceeding safe oil pressure. Your engine probably has a 30mm oil pump on it! 22mm is stock and 26mm is what would be best!
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oil pump size.

Oil wieght.

Oil pressure relief valve springs wrong length or strength. See Bentley Volkswagen Official Service Manual for details.

Oil pressure relief valves stuck.

Had the third one happen to us with a newly rebuilt engine. Researched, measured, and got the correct springs made all of the difference.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope....must have me mixed up with someone else. 1970 westy with stock 1600. Pretty sure oil pump is stock unless the shop did the switcharoo on me. Been running this long lock as is for the last 13 years.....only get to put a few hundred miles a year in the bus. Pressure was right at 40psi at highway and between 10-20 at idle when warm before the shop visit last year.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So narrows it down to oil, stuck pressure relief valves, or someone switched engines with you when you were not looking... Wink
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why did you take it too the shop and what were they supposed to do?
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tolstoy
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took it to the shop to investigate a pretty bad oil leak and to kind of check my work as far as timing and carb adjustment. Not sure, but they may have done an oil change.

Got the new pertronix installed and fired her up. Now, I had prior to burning up my ignition changed the oil and filter and hadn't had the opportunity to start it again. I replaced the mobil1 m103 filter that was on there with a new napa gold unit. Filled her up with 3 quarts of aero shell sae40. Upon start up pressure sat just above 40psi. Let it run for about 10 minutes and the pressure never dropped much.

Decided to go for a spin around the block to compare to what I experienced the other day. The other day under any load at all the gauge would damn near dime out.....and the engine would shutter as the gauge wondered past 80psi. This only got a little better as it warmed up some more.

Today, with the new oil and filter, she pretty much stayed at 40psi no matter what was going on.......load or not. No shuttering from the engine. Let her idle for quite some time in a parking lot and then drove home. At this point the pressure would drop to 25psi at idle and go up to about 40psi under load.

Temp here is about 65 degrees.

Tolstoy
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good, but will keep fingers crossed you did not swell up the cooler to the point that the cooling air can not pass thru it. Oil pressure over 80 PSI must be avoided for this reason.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oil temps barely got to the first line after 120 on my vdo.

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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aeroshell is great for your airplane engine (IIRC, I used Aeroshell 50 in a Continental O-200 and a Lycoming O-360), but a good automotive 10W30 (winter) or 10w40 (summer) works best in a VW.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tolstoy wrote:
Oil temps barely got to the first line after 120 on my vdo.

Tolstoy


Not surprising at 65 F, but keep aware when the weather gets well above 80 F.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like it is working right now! I wonder if there was something wrong with the NAPA filter! Everytime I have gone to Napa for A VW part they gave me the wrong part. Buy yeah it seems it is working now. Probably was a stuck oil pressure relief valve. I think 1970 was a dual relief case but a single port engine, Is that what it has?
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was originally single port, but is now dual port. The napa filter is the new one. The napa replaced a mobil1 filter.

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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tolstoy wrote:
Oil temps barely got to the first line after 120 on my vdo.

Tolstoy


If the cooler bypass piston was stuck closed the oil would all be forced through the cooler at all times so it would stay nice and thick and thus cause high oil pressure. Can't say why it would stick and then unstick, but that is the way of the world. Course it could be something different like the filter media not passing oil.
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have a '70 but you don't tell us anything about your engine other than changed to DP heads and intake. Can you give us the case number? Stock was a "B" engine, single relief, and non-doghouse cooler. Is that what yours is or is it upgraded?

The service manual tells what the specs and wear limits are for your engines oil pressure. And under what conditions it is checked at. As a general rule 10 psi per each 1,000 rpm is the bare minimum at operating temperature. Warmed up probably around 15 psi/1000 rpm would be a good pressure. More than that is beyond what would be best. Depending on your trans ratio and tires that means that somewhere around 55 mph would be close to 3,000 rpm. So up at operating temp (maybe around 180 F oil) that's in the neighborhood of 30-45 psi with temp being the big factor.

Now, please tell us why you are using 40W oil? In general, that would be more suited for ambient temps continuously well up in the 100's. For years my summer oil was 40W (when it's usually somewhere between 100-120F) and then 10W-40 winter oil. Multi-vis has improved and now I'm using 20W-50 most of the time. Particularly in Iowa, 40W normally wouldn't be used unless it was an old really worn out engine that couldn't build oil pressure.

Another concern is your "probably worthless oil cooler mounted filter". We have no idea of what you are talking about. You have a filter so hopefully it is a good normal modified full flow system. But what is this about in mounted on a cooler? From time to time we hear horror stories about wierd filter adaptations and also terrible cooler installs. Hopefully yours isn't that. Please give us pictures so we can see what you have. Your description and numbers don't sound right.
You put in 3 quarts. Stock capacity is 2.65 qts. (2-2/3 qts.). Your filter system, whatever it is, would hold more than 1/3 qt. I run a filter and a 1-1/2 qt deep sump. And my oil change capacity is 5-3/4 quarts. So eliminating the 1-1/2 quarts for the sump but keeping the filter and hoses that leaves 4-1/4 quarts. Pics of what you have will help a lot.
You might have a larger than stock pump which is common to do at rebuild time. Although until we know what engine you have we can't tell what was stock.
The variable factor in pressure is engine RPM and not load. So idle psi is meaningful but load psi isn't. MPH would be meaningful providing what gear you are in. That relates back to the RPM deal. So your latest numbers sound different and better than your first numbers. Why do you think that is so? Changing the filter is not going to affect pressure shown on your gauge. Unless somehow the filter has a much higher pressure loss and then your gauge might show a lower pressure. But without knowing what your aftermarket modified system is we can't determine much.

Sometimes my cold start up pressure gets above 60 psi at idle and that's with a 30mm pump. That's way to high to consider driving off. But after a couple minutes at idle it drops to more normal. Pressure funnies can also happen when the valve (at the flywheel end) that is the one that functions as the system relief gets messed up. And some of that is a result of some rebuilders/machine shops spotfacing the end of the valve bore thinking that it will make is seal better. Sadly if it does seal better then that's a problem and they should have left it alone.
It's good you are monitoring it. Keep at it as you pressure and temps relationships are very important to know.
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tolstoy
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't remember case number off top of my head.....but can get it later if necessary. I do remember that it is a dual relief case with dual port heads, doghouse oil cooler, all of the engine tin including Hoover bit, functional flaps and a working thermostat. Rebuilt og 34pict3 carb, Bosch svda dist with pertronix, and stock exhaust that has been ceramic coated inside and out.

The filter mount is not a hack.....I just question if it's just a gimmick part or if it provides real benifits. It is a piece of cnc aluminum that replaces the oil cooler mount. The cooler attaches as normal, an arm extends thru a small cut in the fan shroud behind the distributor where the actual filter screws on in a semi vertical orientation. At best the filter filters some of the oil....at worst it does nothing.

I use 3 quarts because I really don't think the tiny, nearly upside down oil filter holds much more then 1/3 quart. There are no hoses to fill and the mount is very compact. I tried to find an example of this filter mount for you to see it, but it can't find anything about it anywhere.

I use 40sae oil because this is not my daily driver and I don't drive at all in the winter. If I am driving it, it's usually a multi hour drive in the dead heat of Iowa June-August. Talking 85-100 degrees and 100% humidity. If I am just driving a short distance I let it warm up before I leave. Was thinking of going to 10w40 next oil change though.

Tolstoy
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For anywhere except the hottest desert areas, I run 5w40 year round. Easy starts down to any temp that I am apt to be willing to ride in an air cooled vehicle and an oil that will out perform a straight 40wt in the hottest parts of the engine, plus being synthetic it doesn't break down readily causing sludge and varnish to build up in the case and rocker boxes.


Allowing an engine to warm up at idle is hard on an engine even during warmer weather. The less overall time the engine is run with oil temps below 160*F the better.

FWIW, your engine temperature is not affected much at all by humidity.
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I know humidity doesn't effect oil temps........but it sure effects me! God, I hate the heat.

Tolstoy
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