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dennismafo
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Little Advice please Reply with quote

I have a 1975 bay window i picked up and am working on. The guy I got it from took the pancake out and put in a 1600 cc dual port single carb in it. its matched with a 5 rib tranny.

The Issue's
1. he did not close in the engine compartment. so the engine is just hanging out there, do I need to close this in (I would like to) If so I can not find any information how to achieve this. Anyone point me in the right direction here.

2. Oil leak, i know i know I replaced the valve cover gaskets but i am not sure where it is coming from it does not loose lots of oil but the under side is covered and a light haze over parts on top. Its just a mess and I would like it to stop.
Is there a way to effectively find an oil leak? How do you do it if you don't know where it is coming from?
when it sits it may drip a few times, after a drive it is worse till it all drips away. The majority of the oil is under the valve covers but not on them and on the bottom (ribs) of the engine the left side more that the right.


the van seems to drive ok but...

3. The shifter stick smacks around if you let off the gas to quick is this typical of these set up's? If not what to check?
this is my first 1600 up right I have always had water cooled or the pancake. After 10 15 miles it seems to calm down a bit it does not jump out of gear

Thanks again for the help my last post about the starting issues was informative and I got it all squared away.
Once again thanks for your time and any help you can lend
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Red Fau Veh
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the type 1 engine was available in the late buses in other countries, so you need that tin for yours, or the copy made of fiberglass. And maybe the main seal is leaking.
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dennismafo
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok any clue where to get that tin or fiberglass copy?

Also this main seal is it hard to check or replace? I have the service book for the 75 but it does not include the 1600 engine
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CoastalAirCooledVW
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Yes you must close the engine in or the engine will not last long at all. I wouldn't drive it without the tin. This is the link for the tin:

http://www.creativecarcraft.com/notforbug.htm

2) The best way to find an oil leak is to make sure the underside of the engine is clean. Then you can tell where it is coming from without having to look through a bunch of grease and grime. There are also UV dyes that I have heard good things about.

3)No that is not normal.
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dennismafo
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the link a bit above my budget i may pick up a used front and bend some sheet metal to fill in any gap and attach it to the stock pieces to enclose the compartment. i assume this is an option my it not the best but i am sure it could work.

I used a oil cleaner it just made a mess left a lot of stuff behind.

can you recommend the best way to clean this thing up?
any cleaner?
should i power wash it at the car wash?

I just stumbled on a piece about the tubes behind the valve covers i think this sounds like my issue that's where the majority of the oil is.

now for the transmission lol
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CoastalAirCooledVW
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dennismafo wrote:
thanks for the link a bit above my budget i may pick up a used front and bend some sheet metal to fill in any gap and attach it to the stock pieces to enclose the compartment. i assume this is an option my it not the best but i am sure it could work.

I used a oil cleaner it just made a mess left a lot of stuff behind.

can you recommend the best way to clean this thing up?
any cleaner?
should i power wash it at the car wash?

I just stumbled on a piece about the tubes behind the valve covers i think this sounds like my issue that's where the majority of the oil is.

now for the transmission lol

I guess it is an option but the key is being as airtight as possible I.E. you don't want to see any light through the engine compartment. If you and the P.O. have been driving it without the tin then the engine might be dying anyway. The type of cleaner isn't the most important because either way you are going to have to put a bit of elbow grease into it. Rags and scrubbing brushes have always worked for me. I have never powerwashed an engine due to the fear that I will break something but I don't know if that is a rational fear or not. If you get anything electronic wet then it will run like crap till it drys. I believe you have to remove your engine (not a big deal) to do pushrod tubes on a type 1 engine but I could be wrong.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if any one has ever come up with a way to tell where an Oil leak is by looking at where it drips on the ground under the car. I can imagine a drawing on a piece of card board. Main Seal Here! Right Valve Cover here! #3 intake Push Rod tube here! Blow-By here! and so on?
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GeorgeO.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The leaking oil is probably coming from the rear seal between the Fly Wheel and Motor thus it is not letting the transmission to fully engage so that is why your stick slaps about. Your clutch plate is probably wet with oil and will have to be replaced. Since the previous owner put a 1600 motor, he has modified the transmission to mate the motor to the transmission. You will have to stick with the upright configuration unless you want to spend money for a new transmission and switch back to the type 4. The filler panel for the type 1 is available from Creative Car Craft but I would suggest if you stick with the Upright, have someone build you a 1776 with some 34 icts which is enough to get moving down the road. Good luck with your bus.
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Bleyseng
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the engine mounted at the rear with a homemade engine bar? Otherwise its just supported via the weak tranny mounts which would cause the movement getting off the gas.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stick shift moving around may be a sign you have bad engine mounts which are letting the engine move more than it is supposed to.

Your oil leak could be from excessive crankcase pressure caused by a clogged or improperly installed breather system. Many times when people do conversions they build an inadequate venting system as they don't understand the purpose of the breather and end up with oil being blown out everywhere, you want the breather to have as little backpressure as possible and it should preferably vent into the air cleaner. If just allowed to vent into the engine compartment it will make a mess. To find an oil leak you need to get everything clean and inspect your engine just as any new oil begins to appear, this can take repeated attempts. Autoparts sell dyes that can help locate leaks.

You don't need a new transmission to convert back to a Type 4 engine, you need either a new input shaft or you can just have the Type 4 flywheel bored to accept a standard pilot bearing.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
The stick shift moving around may be a sign you have bad engine mounts which are letting the engine move more than it is supposed to.

Your oil leak could be from excessive crankcase pressure caused by a clogged or improperly installed breather system. Many times when people do conversions they build an inadequate venting system as they don't understand the purpose of the breather and end up with oil being blown out everywhere, you want the breather to have as little backpressure as possible and it should preferably vent into the air cleaner. If just allowed to vent into the engine compartment it will make a mess. To find an oil leak you need to get everything clean and inspect your engine just as any new oil begins to appear, this can take repeated attempts. Autoparts sell dyes that can help locate leaks.

You don't need a new transmission to convert back to a Type 4 engine, you need either a new input shaft or you can just have the Type 4 flywheel bored to accept a standard pilot bearing.


Like the 914 setup with the pilot shaft bearing in the flywheel but install the stop bushing in the crank end or the pilot bearing slides into the crank and the shaft flops around causing the pilot shaft seal in the tranny to leak!
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeorgeO. wrote:
The filler panel for the type 1 is available from Creative Car Craft but I would suggest if you stick with the Upright, have someone build you a 1776 with some 34 icts which is enough to get moving down the road.


If the tin isn't in the budget then I don't think a 1776 is either.

dennismafo wrote:
thanks for the link a bit above my budget i may pick up a used front and bend some sheet metal to fill in any gap and attach it to the stock pieces to enclose the compartment. i assume this is an option my it not the best but i am sure it could work.




Danwvw wrote:
I wonder if any one has ever come up with a way to tell where an Oil leak is by looking at where it drips on the ground under the car. I can imagine a drawing on a piece of card board. Main Seal Here! Right Valve Cover here! #3 intake Push Rod tube here! Blow-By here! and so on?


That would be pretty cool but I don't think it would be very accurate
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
I wonder if any one has ever come up with a way to tell where an Oil leak is by looking at where it drips on the ground under the car. I can imagine a drawing on a piece of card board. Main Seal Here! Right Valve Cover here! #3 intake Push Rod tube here! Blow-By here! and so on?


you gotta be kiding! Get your arse in there and open your eyes. Oil will leak from every posible place it can so trying to tell where from where it lands on the floor is for kids and retards. I can tell you oil can leak from the exact same location and be cause by two diferent isues like a bad oil seal at the main seal, or the cam plug. fixing both requieres the engine out so your back to square one, but how about a cracked case at the radiador base, you can easilly be fooled to think its just the radiator seals that are cooked.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok i do not see any type of a bar i would assume its just the tranny bolts. As for the new engine I plan to swap this thing out in July for a new/rebuilt one.
just need it running Smile

Most of my budget is going into interior and seals rubber seals everywhere and for other items boots bushings ect. The body is solid 1 hole about quarter size and a bit of surface rust no biggie.

is there a support bar i can get to solve some of the bucking?

I live in PA and we get state inspections I had it to my mechanic and he said among a couple minor issues the oil leak needs fixed.
I don't want to sink a lot into this engine but i need it running and inspected for a couple months.

It needs breaks in the front and ball joints no big deal but this darn oil leak lol
Gonna clean it up and investigate this breather issue you speak of

this is the best forum i ever posted on thanks for all the help


EDIT: ok a bit of reading on this breather issue

on my oil filler there is an open hole and i see no air filter on top of my engine I'm going to check the ring behind the pully for oil coming out.

Do i need to set up an air filter or should this open hole on the oil filler be piped somewhere?


Last edited by dennismafo on Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:13 pm; edited 3 times in total
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dennismafo
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

another question why would no engine tin kill the engine?? I'm gonna pick up what piece's I can find and piece the rest in till I upgrade but how would this kill it?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm in the same boat as you. I have a late bay with a bug motor in it. No engine tin and no rear engine support.

However, this is where we take different paths. You said the bulk of your budget is going into the interior and some suspension stuff. I feel like you're going about this completely backwards. Getting the engine (whether you stick with the current motor or put in the correct one) and drive train in tip top condition should be a priority.

It doesn't matter how pretty the inside/outside looks if the only way people will see it is sitting in your driveway with a fried motor/trans.

In my case, I've located a couple of Type 4 engines (with tins) and will be putting one in soon. Once the thing is driveable (without worrying about if it's going to fry as well as leaving little spots everywhere I go) then I'll get on the cosmetic stuff. Interior so forth.

Of course it's your bus and you can/will do as you wish but I wanted to offer a different perspective from someone in the same situation as you.

Just my 2¢...

Earl
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dennismafo wrote:
another question why would no engine tin kill the engine?? I'm gonna pick up what piece's I can find and piece the rest in till I upgrade but how would this kill it?


The tin is a major component is helping cool the engine and was designed to do just that. Without it, it's crap shoot that you will eventually lose.

Earl
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I take it "Radiator" is what El_Güero is calling the Oil cooler? Cool, Never heard it called that before on an air cooled!. Actually some of the oil leaks are fairly easy to tell based on the drippings. Like the front main! A Valve Cover! And something at the case! For example excessive blow-by can cause a oil spot at the rear of the engine as can several easy to repair leaks like the fuel pump at its base and the generator stand. Valve cover gaskets are the usual and are very easy to repair. I seal my cork gaskets to the covers with silicone RTV Gasket Seal, Install and wait to start the engine until the next day! Valve Cover oil leaks always drench the outside of the heater-boxes. Push Rod Tubes give the lower engine tin a good oil wash. Leaking head bolts leak down onto the inside of the heater boxes. Oil cooler seals leak across the top of the engine on the left side.
I am a little concerned about the shifter jumping around! Is your transaxle moving around? Better check for broken Transaxle mounts and Rear mounts, If the modification that let whoever put the type 1 engine into your late model bus was not right or falling apart it needs to be done right!
I would advise taking the type 1 out and at least take it down to the heads off and fix all the oil leaks and clean it up good and find the right tin for it. Fix the Rear Mount or what ever is coming loose causing your shifter to move. Then go out and find a good 76 or later Type 4 2.0 liter Engine for your bus. It will have more power be more dependable and be worth more too. Keep the type 1 for your spare for whenever you want to work on the Type 4 out of the Bus!
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had all of these on my 1600 TP upright engine.

Oil leaks - if the oil is from the oil cooler on the upright engine then oil will run both sides across the top of the engine and go everywhere under the bus.

A single central drip of oil to the front of the sump is probably the crank shaft seal at the front of the engine which is not too hard to fix if you use a Torque Master type tool to remove the nut holding the flywheel on.

Also pushrod tubes can leak giving drips one side or the other. Slight oil cooler leaks will come out the drivers (left side) of the engine.

And drips round the oil change plate can be gasket problems, missing copper washers round the six nuts, ordinary rather than domed nuts or simply not tight enough (but not too tight or the studs shear)

Overfilling with oil - it comes out behind the alternator pulley which spins the oil across the engine bay, covering everything in oil.

Dont drive it without the tinware plates around the engine - maybe look to Europe - where the upright engine is a lot more common and spares are available as we kept on without emissions rules a lot longer.

Even chromed stuff on eBay.
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dennismafo
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok my friend and i cleaned it real good, we found 2 spots leaking oil.

1. between engine and tranny dead center and on each left right side.

2. the tubes under the valve cover one side is a mess.

the one between the tranny/engine.... is there a big seal around it or would this may be the main seal as suggested?
also if i do pull the engine back can i just take mounts out and back the engine up a bit to get at it to replace seals? so i don't have to disconnect everything.

the tubes i will order the parts and replace

Like i said i just need this thing to run/pass inspection for a couple months then it gets new gear.

I know ill catch crap for this but is there just some kind of sealer i can run around the leak spots to seal it lol ok let me have
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