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sammyman
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 195
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 Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:56 pm Post subject: Should I go with a Vanagon or Eurovan? |
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I have been on the lookout for a Eurovan Weekender for a few weeks now. Keep missing good ones. All along I see Vanagons pop up and some of them are amazing. I have been doing reading here, but give me some advice.
I have a wife and two kids. I'd like to all be able to sleep in the Van (pop top), but don't need the sink etc. I'd like something relatively safe which is why I was going for Eurovan. Also, I'm pretty MPG sensitive since we drive a lot. I plan on also using the van for a business and moving big boxes (42" x 11" x 6") everyday.
Should I keep looking for a Eurovan? Or should I consider a Vanagon? |
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randywebb
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Why not get an Astro Van
And be flyin' higher than Superman
They'd call you a Cosmic Nut
You'd be twice as dense as Donald Duck
And he'll try his best to screw you up
- apologies to Jimi
_________________
1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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Xtremjeepn
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012
Posts: 1543
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Based on your criteria you should probably keep shopping for a Euro.
ABS, ESP, Dual airbags, bigger brakes.
Stock for stock, the least powerful Eurovan is more powerful than the most powerful Vanagon.
Euro is going to drive better on the highway, especially in the wind.
With the engine in the front you have a larger storage area for loading and stacking boxes in the rear with the seats out. (can put things like motorcycles in the Eurovan that you can't load in the Vanagon).
The real value for most in the Vanagon is its classic nature. If you are not seeking and embracing one for that reason then the Euro is probably a better choice. |
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Gruppe B
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007
Posts: 1331
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Sprinter |
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TequilaSunSet
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2012
Posts: 2109
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Awkwardly large, just not the same. Get a full on RV at that point.
_________________
Don't harsh my mellow...
1985 Hightower Vanagon 1.8T- Gone
1972 Panel Bus- Gone
1967 Bug- Gone
1964 Euro Sunroof Bug- Gone
1969/72/63 Sunroof Bug- Gone
1975 Brazilian Bug in the Philippines 🇵🇭- New to me |
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Xtremjeepn
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012
Posts: 1543
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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I've seen these commets often. I'm sorry but they seem totally uneducated and off base.
Sprinters, while cool, are not even in the same basic ballpark of a vanagon or Eurovan. A beaten CARGO VAN sprinter costs more than a NICE Eurovan camper, and a Sprinter Camper conversion is easily 5X the price of a Eurovan Camper(which is already more money than a nice Eurovan Weekender).
Just check out the size difference alone! This size makes it w hole different type of vehicle. One you can't park in your garage, fit in a parking garage, etc etc. Some wouldn't even qualify to park in HOAs.
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2987
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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They will both do the job for you. It really comes down to which one you prefer. Both types get relatively good mileage compared to other types of vans. I personally would recommend a 90-91 Vanagon Multivan (pop top but no kitchen) with a Subaru 2.5 engine conversion. This combination makes for a powerful, economical and unique vehicle.
One thing to keep in mind regarding Eurovans is that there never were very many of them so there isn't much enthusiast support out there. Finding used parts for them is hard too. Of course Vanagons are older so there are often lots of things wrong with them when you get one, but they are fairly simple vehicles and the support and parts availability is excellent.
David |
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Xtremjeepn
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012
Posts: 1543
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| D Clymer wrote: |
| . I personally would recommend a 90-91 Vanagon Multivan (pop top but no kitchen) with a Subaru 2.5 engine conversion. |
Right....just swap an engine or find one with a PROPERLY done swap. Has to be simpler than just buying a Euro right 
| D Clymer wrote: |
One thing to keep in mind regarding Eurovans is that there never were very many of them so there isn't much enthusiast support out there.
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Except for the 5,000 members of the EV-Update Yahoo group, VWVortex Vans section, VWT4Forum.Co.UK and the other forums dedicated to the T4 van all over the world. (dozens of sites in dozens of languages), the 2-3 T4 dedicated magazines, this forum, etc. But, other than that.....no enthusiast support
Really, the issue is that most of the people on this particular forum have Vanagons. So they haven't put much effort into seeking out resources for the T4 vans. Not a bad thing, just reality. |
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T3 Pilot
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 1509
Location: Deep South of the Great White North
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Although they are both hot, I prefer Betty over Veronica........
Umh, what was the question?
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1988 Vanagon
The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel...... |
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Xtremjeepn
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012
Posts: 1543
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Syncro Pilot wrote: |
Although they are both hot, I prefer Betty over Veronica........
Umh, what was the question? |
Totally agree! Can't really go wrong with either.
Just based on the OP comments about safety, hauling, etc the Euro is still probably his best choice. |
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sammyman
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| How much should I set aside for a nice 1990-1991 Multivan Weekender? |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2987
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Xtremjeepn wrote: |
| D Clymer wrote: |
| . I personally would recommend a 90-91 Vanagon Multivan (pop top but no kitchen) with a Subaru 2.5 engine conversion. |
Right....just swap an engine or find one with a PROPERLY done swap. Has to be simpler than just buying a Euro right
| D Clymer wrote: |
One thing to keep in mind regarding Eurovans is that there never were very many of them so there isn't much enthusiast support out there.
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Except for the 5,000 members of the EV-Update Yahoo group, VWVortex Vans section, VWT4Forum.Co.UK and the other forums dedicated to the T4 van all over the world. (dozens of sites in dozens of languages), the 2-3 T4 dedicated magazines, this forum, etc. But, other than that.....no enthusiast support
Really, the issue is that most of the people on this particular forum have Vanagons. So they haven't put much effort into seeking out resources for the T4 vans. Not a bad thing, just reality. |
I didn't say anything about doing an engine swap in a Multivan being easier. What I said was that in my opinion (which is what he was looking for - opinions) a Multivan with a 2.5 Subaru swap would be a highly functional and desirable vehicle. And it's important to remember that buying a Eurovan doesn't get you a home-run in the engine/transmission department. The 2.5s were just as slow as 2.1 Wasserboxers, they were thirsty and suffered from all the Digifant drivability woes VW's EFI system is known for. The VR6s run great but they often need expensive timing chain and automatic transmission repairs.
I'm aware of the EV Yahoo group and the Vortex forum, although the Vortex forum has very limited participation. By support, I meant an active and enthusiastic group that is dedicated to continuing to improve and evolve the vehicle. I see mostly maintenance issues being discussed on Eurovan forums.
If you look at the start of my original post, I said that they would both do the trick. I actually like both of them. But my feeling is that a Vanagon can represent a more enjoyable/exciting ownership experience because there is more going on with them and there's always something new to look forward to.
D |
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whynotvw
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Joined: May 04, 2004
Posts: 1322
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Transmission is the weak link in the Euro. More then $5k to fix and if you can find a mechanic that will do the job. Thats what steered me away from Eurovan.
I have the poptop with weekender 1987 with subaru engine. I couldn't be happier.
I agree with Clymer get weekender vanagon with suby conversion.
Just my opinion. |
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3459
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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I like the Eurovan. Never EVER owned one. Looks cool and as VW tends to F up the power train it may gain "conversion" status.
Magic Carpet? Prolly not........Some times you have to say what the fuck.
Bet you could make it fly.
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LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
....Bad Sneakers.... |
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12177
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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For a turnkey solution, the T4 is the obvious winner. The T3 can be made to fit the bill with lots of upgrades like an engine (1.8t/TDI) + special transaxle modifications + brakes + wheels/tires + a whole lot of other expensive and time intensive shit. For all that time and expense, you can buy several T4 transaxles. I've hitched my wagon to the T3, but the T4 just makes so much more sense if you're just looking to get in and drive a safe and comfortable modern rig.
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE. |
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Xtremjeepn
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012
Posts: 1543
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| whynotvw wrote: |
| Transmission is the weak link in the Euro. More then $5k to fix and if you can find a mechanic that will do the job. |
Not really an apples to apples comparison here. People spout out $5k for a transmission, which is an old number that includes all the labor. Then out the other side of thier mouth talk about Suby conversions with brake upgrades, for the Vanagon, yada, yada, yada. All of which would be exponentially more expensive if you included all the shop labor like the Euro transmission statement above.
The reality from recent threads I've read on the topic on the T4(Eurovan) groups is that a rebuilt transmission is about $1,000. I've had mine out twice (not for transmission issues) and the labor is no more than any other VW. Any shop that quotes you $4k is full of BS and you should walk away. It's no different than taking the transmission out of a Jetta or Golf.
While there have been trans failures, they are nowhere near as common as the Internet makes them sound. With a cooler they seem to last just fine in the massive Rialta motorhome and heavy Eurovan full camper. Lots of those out there with over 200k on them.
There was even a 400k with stock original transmission VR6 posted recently on EV_Update. |
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whynotvw
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Joined: May 04, 2004
Posts: 1322
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Xtremjeepn wrote: |
| whynotvw wrote: |
| Transmission is the weak link in the Euro. More then $5k to fix and if you can find a mechanic that will do the job. |
Not really an apples to apples comparison here. People spout out $5k for a transmission, which is an old number that includes all the labor. Then out the other side of thier mouth talk about Suby conversions with brake upgrades, for the Vanagon, yada, yada, yada. All of which would be exponentially more expensive if you included all the shop labor like the Euro transmission statement above.
The reality from recent threads I've read on the topic on the T4(Eurovan) groups is that a rebuilt transmission is about $1,000. I've had mine out twice (not for transmission issues) and the labor is no more than any other VW. Any shop that quotes you $4k is full of BS and you should walk away. It's no different than taking the transmission out of a Jetta or Golf.
While there have been trans failures, they are nowhere near as common as the Internet makes them sound. With a cooler they seem to last just fine in the massive Rialta motorhome and heavy Eurovan full camper. Lots of those out there with over 200k on them.
There was even a 400k with stock original transmission VR6 posted recently on EV_Update. |
Maybe where you live there are a lot of competent Eurovan mechanics to work on trannys. Where I'm at most shops won't go near the eurovan trannys.
In your case where you took down the engine twice thats a quite of mechanical skills, so I'm sure nothing mechanical will scare you.
But for a average Joe the tranny issue is something to think about. |
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Ian
Samba Moderator
Joined: August 28, 2002
Posts: 4961
Location: 713
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:33 am Post subject: |
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5-speed Eurovan is straight up the way to go if you are looking for something comfortable. I really like the 2.5L 5 cylinder ones, and everyone is throwing them away right now. You can pick up a running one around here for like $2k, a hardtop. Campers will always be expensive though.
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Love and good roads!
IN LOVING MEMORY OF ROB CRESS 1968-2012 & KEN CRIMMINS 1957-2024 |
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Xtremjeepn
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012
Posts: 1543
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| whynotvw wrote: |
Maybe where you live there are a lot of competent Eurovan mechanics to work on trannys. Where I'm at most shops won't go near the eurovan trannys.
In your case where you took down the engine twice thats a quite of mechanical skills, so I'm sure nothing mechanical will scare you.
But for a average Joe the tranny issue is something to think about. |
I live in the USA where its easy to order and ship the trans.
Any competent VW shop won't change you any more than a Jetta or Golf to swap it. If they are charging more its because they don't know what they are doing and think its some sort of mystery.
But, if we are comparing to Suby swaps etc it must be looked at as DIY or else you need to compare labor costs for both platforms for a real comparison. |
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Xtremjeepn
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012
Posts: 1543
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Ian wrote: |
| 5-speed Eurovan is straight up the way to go if you are looking for something comfortable. I really like the 2.5L 5 cylinder ones, and everyone is throwing them away right now. You can pick up a running one around here for like $2k, a hardtop. Campers will always be expensive though. |
I used to think that too until I started talking to the local guys here in Colorado with them. Their stories of 35mph up the passes scared me away. My 24v VR6 will run 75 up the passes not even working hard. |
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