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57baja
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Joined: April 15, 2008
Posts: 1166
Location: Kaddie Shack Temple City
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 Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:11 pm Post subject: 1968cc Kadron Dyno Results |
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Fun little project:
We had a few things in mind we tried to accomplish with this engine build:
- Keep it under 2 liters
- Run Kaddies, of course
- Make it super reliable and streetable... something that would be fun to drive on the street, yet something we could run somewhat respectable times at the track with. No tuning headaches, linkage adjustments, or clogged idle jets to contend with... just something that one can jump in and drive.
- Get into the 13's on the quarter mile, get into the 8's on the 1/8.
- Keep it a super easy build for the "Average Joe" in his garage with minimal clearancing issues in a stock case that's been bored out.
- Make it run nice and cool without an extra cooler.
We were all pretty excited about the outcome. We ran it at Bugorama #71 in Miguel's car and won it. It ran 13.95 seconds and 95 MPH. Runs 8.75 in the 1/8 at 80.
We bought a car at Bugorama (like we needed another Volkswagen!), so Miguel ended up having to drive it 400 miles home, as he lost the rights to the tow bar. It drove super smooth, and ran nice and cool. Since then, we've given about 40 customers a ride in the car, and EVERY one of them came back with a smile. We even spanked a bunch of 5.0 Mustangs at Irwindale speedway with it when we were dialing it in before we left.
Figured it was time to pull it out of the car and set it on our dyno and see what it did there. Ran it on Chico's dyno too, and it pulled almost identical numbers: 129HP at 5500RPM on both dynos.
Mission accomplished, I think. Building a couple more of them now, just to test different things and try to replicate the results. We'll have another one for Miguel to race at Bugorama in a couple weeks with any luck!!! Hoping to get the times down even better by eliminating some of the wheel hop issues he had during the last runs.
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bugguy1967
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Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4368
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Nice torque curve. Does that cam really have potential to 6500? Could you guys access that power range with larger vents and more headwork, or are the Kads at their limit already?
What kind of car btw??
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barfy
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Joined: August 16, 2009
Posts: 167
Location: somewhere
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| Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Why did you choose that cam? |
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ralf
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Joined: July 08, 2008
Posts: 1215
Location: r4
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| Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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i suppose this is the same 66' bug or earlier?
wat transmission and tires?
13.95 is pretty got for a 1955cc 
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greggearhead
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Joined: June 20, 2004
Posts: 579
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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57baja
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Joined: April 15, 2008
Posts: 1166
Location: Kaddie Shack Temple City
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| Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| Nice torque curve. Does that cam really have potential to 6500? Could you guys access that power range with larger vents and more headwork, or are the Kads at their limit already? |
Thanks. The 336S has good power potential. We really like it for the "streetibility" factor. It's smooth and drivable through the usable powerband. We've done extensive head testing, venturi machining, and manifold modifications with lots of different builds, including this one. The heads we have on it, the venturis we machined for it, and the manifolds we did for it are pretty well matched for this application.
Heads:
I poked around for pictures of the tops and middles of the manifolds, which are super important for flow, but only came up with the bottoms, before we match-ported them.
We may be able to squeeze a few more drops from it, but I think we're in the ballpark. I know... we bolt a set of 44IDF's to it and it would surely make even more power. However... we're trying to keep the build within certain parameters. How much juice can we squeeze from this one?
We're close
| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| What kind of car btw?? |
'63 bug:
| barfy wrote: |
| Why did you choose that cam? |
Same as above. Great powerband. Great versatility. For this particular application, I've found it to be best. The 330S is a great cam too, but we needed a little more poop from this engine than the 330 would give us.
| ralf wrote: |
i suppose this is the same 66' bug or earlier?
wat transmission and tires?
13.95 is pretty got for a 1955cc |
Trans was built by Transaxle Engineering for us. It's got 4:12 R/P and stock gearing first through third. It has a bus fourth for freeway driving (it's a daily driver, not a dragster), and just got a facelift last week with some other internal upgrades. Tires are 205/60 street tires. Nothing too crazy.
| greggearhead wrote: |
| Compression ratio and deck height? |
.045" and 9.6:1
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dsrtfox
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Joined: August 25, 2009
Posts: 443
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| That's really impressive. 40 more hp than my Super 90 |
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barfy
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Joined: August 16, 2009
Posts: 167
Location: somewhere
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| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you have any video of the car running? What is the power band like? |
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57baja
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Joined: April 15, 2008
Posts: 1166
Location: Kaddie Shack Temple City
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| barfy wrote: |
| Do you have any video of the car running? What is the power band like? |
We shot some video of the car at Irwindale the night before we left to Sacto Bugorama when we were trying to dial it in. It was a fun night, for sure. It was "Mustang Night", apparently. I think all the Ford dealerships must have gotten together and sponsored it because the place was packed with 5.0 Mustangs, about half of which had paper plates still. We raced 7 or 8 of them and only lost once do to experimenting with tire pressures and launch RPM's to prep for the Bugorama Sacramento race that coming weekend.
Link
Miguel (Jake), went on to get the win at Sacto, and we ended up selling that particular motor to a customer that took a ride in it.
We built a very similar one, experimenting with many different things to try and make it even better, but ran up against a wall time-wise before we had to install it in the car so we could race again this coming weekend.
It got installed today after three tedious days of experimenting on the dyno with different jetting, different intake manifold designs, different air cleaner configurations, and different exhaust systems. We're not done testing, but we had to get something on the track. We took it to Irwindale again tonight and were able to get about 10 passes in.
This one is not quite as polished as as the last build was, that's for sure.
However....
I have confidence that Jake can pull through. It's race time, and we've got to put the car in the trailer and head up north to try and three-peat this weekend at Sacramento Bugurama.
Anyone going?
We made a lot of changes to the car's suspension this time around, and we've had exactly 1.25 miles of road time to try to sort it out and get used to it. Lots of changes.
Wish we were able to have another week with this thing!
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tncsparky
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Joined: November 29, 2008
Posts: 703
Location: santa rosa
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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How much do you think 44idfs would add to it?
I have one and am thinking of putting it in a 2180 with 1.4 or 1.5 rockers
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57baja
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Joined: April 15, 2008
Posts: 1166
Location: Kaddie Shack Temple City
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| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| tncsparky wrote: |
| How much do you think 44idfs would add to it? |
Probably a fair amount. The IDF's are certainly a good choice for many folks. They just didn't fit into the original plan criteria for this motor. We wanted to see what Kaddies could do!
| tncsparky wrote: |
| I have one and am thinking of putting it in a 2180 with 1.4 or 1.5 rockers |
Assuming you mean the cam? The 336S is a good match for this particular motor combination. "2180" is just a displacement number. Many other factors come into play when choosing a cam to match a particular engine, and its intended use. I can see the 336S being the perfect choice for a 2180cc, assuming all other internals match, and the powerband it provides meets the intended use. It's a great cam.
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