Good deal on a Tiico engine conversion?

[Muftobration]

I have an '84 Wolfsburg Edition Westy with the stock 1.9L engine that I've just gotten running a couple weeks ago at my local Vanagon specialist. It's my first Vanagon and I'm loving it so far, but the mechanic said the engine is not long for this world. He recommends I do a swap, which was my intention at some point anyway. My van is an automatic and he just so happens to have a full Tiico setup pulled off another automatic that's ready to go. He said he got it for $6000 and would install it for $1000.

I've read mixed reviews on the Tiico, but mostly negative. From what I can tell, this conversion has been offered for nearly 20 years and has gone through many iterations, with the ECU playing a particularly important role in those iterations (starting with A, now on E). I don't know anything about the particular kit I'm being offered except that the previous owner apparently got the engine new and that it has a new alternator on it. Here are some pictures:

I think I'm really in the market for a Bostig, which I thought I could do myself over the winter. However, I've heard about some issues with Bostig and automatic transmissions. I'd swap to manual, but that's getting into a bit more work than I want to take on right now. My tranny's fine. Are there any Tiicoowners who can tell me what I'm looking at here or what I should watch out for? Is this a deal or should I forget it? Thanks!

[SyncroButter]

I'm not a Tiico owner so have no personal experience there, but I think there must be a typo in your post... you say mechanic paid 6k and will install for 1k?

I've done the Bostig conversion and like it a lot, mine is a standard... what issue have you heard about with the automatic?

Last but not least, Arlington MA is the bee's knees. I used to live a few houses up from Mass Ave on Jason St.
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Grant
In the stable: 1986 Syncro Westfalia/Bostig, 1989 Doka Tristar, 1974 Vespa Rally 200, 1973 Vespa Primavera 125, 1963 Solex 2200, 1938 Buick Special
Gone but not forgotten: 1989 Porsche 944, 1973 Standard Beetle

[Zeitgeist 13]

Looks like a later iteration with the serpentine belt setup. Also, that appears to be a FAS engine cradle and exhaust hanger arrangement. $6k is silly money for an older Tiico.
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE.

[JudoJeff]

Go test drive a Tiico and a Bostig, then make up your mind.

I just put a Bostig into an automatic, no problems.
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________________________________________
1989 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Burned up on 7/31/16.
1987 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig & Rebuilt, sold
1986 Vanagon GL Westfalia Camper, Bostig Sold May 10, 2021
1999 Ford GTRV Westfalia camper (30% bigger Westy layout)

[ELO78]

$6k sounds really high for the package.

Here's one, with all the desirable upgrade bits, for $1500:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2204969

Here's a VW I-4 gasser conversion very close to you for $2500:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2117134

Just some things to think about...
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Eric
1990 Westy Multivan, 2.1 L WBX, 4-speed - SOLD
2003 EuroVan Westy Weekender

[llilibel03]

I'm on my third vanagon. My present has a tiico. ECU series A. It runs smooth, quiet, with no problems (I'm knocking on wood right now). It is my daily driver and we've done several nearly thousand mile trips. My only complaint is MPG. I get 16. My other vans got 18-19 (city). Other tiiconowners report 20mpg. Some of this may be due to the extra weight of the full camper. Some might be because of the automatic.

It should also have more power than the stock but I don't feel it ( again going from tin top to Westy).

When I hear people bagging on the tiico, I feel the same as when people say how unreliable vanagons are. I think it's all about maintenance. Get a vehicle or engine that you know was well maintained. Check the ECU and see what letter it ends with. I would do the upgrade to the E version but it is $550 upgrade and since my van is running fine...knock on wood.....
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87 syncro tintop
90 gl tin top
85 westy 2.0 tiico automatic (present)

[calo1956]

Not for nothing, and i don't even know what a Tiico is, so my opinion is just that, my opinion. I wouldn't pay $7000 for a junk yard motor, that has been laying around outside with floor mats to keep water out of it, and no idea of its past history. I doubt the mechanic paid $6000 for that motor, why would he? If i paid $6000 for a motor, i certainly wouldn't leave it laying around like that.Im sure the majority here would agree. I think you can find better options,. Either way, good luck with your project...
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Enjoy the ride....
72 bug
80 westfalia

[SteveMc]

Mechanic with engine to sell says your engine is no good. You may want to get a second opinion.
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1986 Transporter Single Cab Syncro

[Muftobration]

[82westyrabbit]

My van has a Tiico engine and I get 19.5 mpg that is definitely a FAS engine mount. For that price it would have to have all the latest FAS modes (e code ecu,up date fuel rail and injectors). My van is in western Massachusetts. John

[AZ Landshaper]

I wouldnt pay 6k for that motor. Im in the infancy of a suby conversion right now and I expect to be done w the whole project for less than 5k. My donor vehicle has 115 and the motor is clean as a whistle. Im pulling it from a subaru I paid $650 for. Not to say one swap is better than another but deffinitley to make a point that there are better deals out there. isnt the bostig conversion 8k?
No way jose did he pay 6k.

Take a breather. I ran into a ton of options when doing my 1st conversion. Its a bit overwhelming but the final decision should be on a clean strong engine thats long for he world. In the long run its all about getting something reliable and powerful under the hood so you maintain your appreciation for the beast when shit hits the fan.

If this motor has to be yours, offer him 3500 and see where it goes. Get the 30 day tech support commitment out of him too.

I grew up in Mass. All over the South-shore. Quincy to Marshfield and Plymouth to Hyannis. Wicked good people all over back there.
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Support Small Business.

-------------------------------------------------------
85 Weekender w/ EJ22
Previously
64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
and a 67 bug.

[metropoj]

TiiCo owner here ...

6000... dollars ? No, never would I pay that for it. if he did pay 6k for that motor, he overpaid A LOT.

Even at 3500 for what I see, there would need to be a lot of documented paperwork to follow it.

Many are pulling the Tiico's as time goes on. I see them up here on the Samba regularly for under 2k ( more reasonable ). Stephens Autohaus pulls them quite regularly as people get the HP bug or have heavier rigs that need more HP. It will be about 15-18 HP less than what I think a stock Bostig delivers ( in the mid 130's ?).

As Zeit pointed out, later upgrades ( serp setup, exhaust hangers, etc. ) are showing, FAS cradle redesign and solved a lot of problems from the first V belt setups. The later ECU's solve a lot of problems if all done correctly ( 4 wire O2 sensor, A2 fuel rail and injectors ). If I missed it, what ECU comes with it ?

The engine should come with an O2 sensor wired into it, a 3 wire if it is older ECU, a 4 wire if an E code. If not an E code, then injectors should still be Vanagon ones. many did the upgrade of injectors but they weren't mapped to the older ECU's to work as efficiently.

The correct updated Duo Sensor should be installed ( the 031, NOT the older 051 A ) on the motor or it'll rum like poo if the temp drops. The Duo sensor plugs into the back of the intake manifold.

The injection is very simple Motronic, but it is the 'only game in town' for ECU via FAS. If I were you and you go TiiCo, pick up a spare ECU. Also budget for the VCDS (vagcom) K-II cable and get an old laptop. This will allow you to troubleshoot and properly match up / time the engine to run properly. It will be a 250 dollar investment.

Many have very good luck with A code ECUs, some, well, not so good. The D and E versions solved a lot of fuel mapping issues and the like, stopped throwing tons of erroneous codes, ecu.

These are 118hp interference design motors.

They aren't rocket ships but do very ok. I am hooked to a 4 speed stock tranny. Mine runs very nice and smooth.

I get around 400kms ( about 250 miles ) out of a tank of fuel fairly consistently in my 86 Westy towing a small trailer on my last journey. Is that good ? I'm not sure, it was slightly better than my tired 2.1 wasser.

Many rag on tiico's because of the poor first attempts stigma that followed them before it all got sorted out.

Those who have educated themselves know what these motors can do and how to get them running properly.

Bottom line, for the right price, TiiCo's do OK. This one is not the right price in any sense of the word.

FAS improved a lot of stuff and are the saviors of the conversion.

Check for cracks and weld ups in the exhaust manifold ( the theory is overheating from the A Codes running lean made those engines run quite hot and cracked the headers ). Of course, leak down and compression with whatever you choose to buy.

I have learned via some bad deals to educate myself before buying someone else's (potential) problem with actual data that I collect.

I applaud that you have done some research on the foibles and seek some additional opinions. I read many "I just bought this great deal that I know nothing about so now what .." type stories. Glad this sin't one of them so far

Ask away if you need any additional info and i'll try my best, The Yahoo TiiCo group also has lots of history on the trails and tribulations of this conversion.


JMM.
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John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[Tbob]

Yikes! $6000 for a used motor? Is there a decimal place error here? And the motor is sitting outside and who knows what issues it will have. He paid $6000? Not likely. I hate to say it, but I wouldn't be able to trust this guy. A previous poster said"Hmmm, mechanic with high priced motor for sale. Diagnosis on your motor is it is not long for this world?"That poster makes an interesting point. Get a second opinion. If he is the local vanagon guy, well, you might need to find another vanagon guy. On second thought, call FAS (Foreign Auto Supply in Harpswell, Maine), and see what they get for a new one. Will give you a baseline, anyway.
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1969 Deluxe, owned since 1973
1973 Westfalia, owned since 1983
1980 Westfalia, watercooled conversion
1985 Westfalia, stock!
1986 Westfakia, Audi I-4 conversion
A couple of trucks and a couple of Jeeps

[vwurbanist]

There is a TICO engine in Kuna, Idaho for $1850. Ready to slide in. Check Boise Craigs list

[pdm777]

OK so I've had about 5 wasserboxers, and got fed up w mickey mouse
VW engineering issues converting the engine to water cooled.

Went out today for a drive in my Tiico 1990 w Audi '91 bubble block.
Pro installed, BAR smog legal in CA, AC blows cold, solid idle, runs cool,
smooth power, no oil leaks, etc.

For the past 40K it's been a joy.
Except...
- the alternator bracket is a joke- reinforce it!
- the exhaust header had a crack at the manifold - weld it!

The key is proper care. and avoiding the original Tiico rebuilt engines
that were pieced together. My Audi 2.0 is a better engine.

- no worries about coolant head leaks.
- higher power band (revs higher) more power
- good gas mileage
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1990 Westy Full Camper

[dkoesyncro]

An inline 4 can be done very inexpensively. As the prior post, the 3A is an excellent block the 9A and aba these are all 2.0 the ABA has a cross flow head that breathes better than the inderect flow of the older heads. These 3 blocks are the old style blocks and are easily adaptable with the diesel components.

A 260° cam in these is a good match for the vanagon imo!

[Muftobration]

I very much appreciate everyone's input here. It sounds like the later Tiicos are refined to the point of being reliable. However, a Tiico engine from years ago that was later updated with the modern components (like the newer ECU and O2 sensor) may not be long for this world due to potentially having run too rich for years. Unless I had the full history of the engine and knew it started life with a later revision of the Tiico kit, I can't be sure what sort of reliability I'll get out of the engine. The good gas mileage is a bonus, but not my main concern; reliability and price are.

[metropoj]

TiiCo ( Tii Trading Company ) was a company that put together a solution to fit the Inline 4's into Vanagons. Many before them did so with the Vanagon Diesel components and any motor ( even the 1.8T ! ) before 2000 ( 058 block I believe itis called ) would receive those parts.

Many would take the 1.8l heads and stick them on the 2.0 cases with a taller head gasket to have them fit nicely under the decklid. Digifant 1.8 EFI is very similar to Vanagon EFI in many ways.

Earlier conversion that didn't even require much electronics were the mid to late 80's CIS Injection from Rabbits/Cabrio's, Golf and Jetta (pre 87).

Eurospec also had a conversion kit and probably a few others too.

It was TiiCo that decided to create a replacement injection system from foreign Motronic budget systems. This in the end, along with some poorly made engine brackets here and there, made the kits popularity plummet with numerous problems and mis steps along the way. Too bad how it all transpired as many lost a lot of sleepless nights and money while things got fixed eventually.

My first TiiCo was in a Syncro. The guy complained of under powered performance because those things carry a lot of weight around. I got it for a song in complete running condition but needed all the goodies upgraded. if you decide to go that route and have questions, many of us here can help you out.


Check up Kendalwoolf's thread on his conversion of a Jetta motor into the Vanagon. it's a great little thread of how many complete the swap.


lastly, be aware that some motors require a little clearancing on the drivers side frame rail to fit the motor, nothing major, just something to be aware of.
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John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[Muftobration]

Thank you for the history lesson, John. I looked up Kendalwoolf's thread and found it here. I've just read the first page so far, but it looks great.

[82westyrabbit]

I agree that that Tiico engine is over priced but we have to be realistic. That engine kit from FAS is nort of 12 grand if I am correct. The real problem as I see it is $6000 plus $1000 to install it buys you a high end Rebuilt WXB engine that will probably last longer than you will Owen the van. Now clearly I like inline 4 engines I have done 4 conversion all to 82 diesel vans. The problem with the $2500 engine is you might have to cut a notch in the left fram rail to make it work and I would want to be clear with the seller so I would know what I was getting into. If you are thinking you would like to get out of your automatic transmission and in to a standard transmission that engine might just be the ticket. The inline 4 engines work great in these vans so if someone is pulling them out and installing something else I would have to question that the engine conversion was not sorted out in the first place and you might be buying someone else’s problem. As soon as the seller of the Tiico engine pushed it out in the rain the value went way down in my opinion. I bought a Tiico engine like that last year I ended up replacing all the gasket and honing the cylinders before I was conformable installing it in my van after someone pushed it outside. If you are paying someone to do the work the cost of a engine conversion would be pretty hard for me to swallow. If you are a hobbyist like me it’s a cheap way to get into a simpler or more powerful engine. Good luck with your decision. John