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georgehanson
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2014
Posts: 2
Location: Murrieta, CA
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 Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:41 pm Post subject: 72 Super Beetle Fix for Shimmies/Shakes |
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| My 72 Super Beetle is starting to shimmie and shake at 40-45mph. I replaced the steering dampner which helped a little, but now the shimmie/shakes are quite regular. Front end appears to be all stock. Where should I start? |
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oasis
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2002
Posts: 2193
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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My guess is either you have owned it for a pretty good while and have never done anything to the front end or you are a fairly new owner without knowing much of its history. If either case is right, I would go to TopLineParts.com and order up everything they have to offer to cure your shakes (sans damper if you replaced it with a new one).
If you insist at piece-mealing away, make sure your wheels and tires are properly balanced. After that, it's a guessing game. But that's not how I would go about it if I intended to drive it any amount.
_________________
Now: 2003 New Beetle Turbo S / 1990 Single Cab Transporter / 2014 Tiguan R-Line 4motion / 2013 Tiguan S / 2002 Golf GLS TDI
Past: 1974 Thing Acapulco / 2009 Eos Komfort / 1997 Jetta GT / 2002 Cabrio GLX / 2002 Passat GLS / 1971 Super Beetle / 1993 EuroVan MV Westfalia / 1981 Pickup LX / 1985 Vanagon / 1986 Jetta GLI |
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Rag00oll
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2012
Posts: 220
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Bushings probably need replaced on the control arms as well.
Someday I'll deal with the same issue 
Until then, Im glad the PO redid the front end, a nice job of it too. |
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mountainkowboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2008
Posts: 951
Location: Socal
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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I just got Topline stuff, sway bar bushings, idler bushing, control arm bushings and make sure your cross link ends are good and tierod ends.
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Chuck in Socal
________________________________________
71 Super Convertible...DD
78 Honda CB750K
06 Honda CR-V (wifes)
63 IH Scout 80 "Beater" |
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Tim Donahoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11812
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:49 am Post subject: |
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My 40-45 mph shimmies were directly related to worn tie-rod ends.
Jack up the front end and get the weight off the wheels. Grab the tires at 6 and 12 o'clock and give them a few nudges up and down. Then do this at 3 and 9 o'clock. If you get play, it's either wheel bearings--or in my case, I thought it was wheel bearings--but it was actually sloppy, worn tie rod ends.
Check the ball joints, too.
Also, is your steering wheel centered with the wheels pointed straight ahead? If not, have the front end aligned by an alignment shop who can do bugs. Actually, have him check out all your front end stuff while he's there.
Tim |
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morymob
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007
Posts: 4683
Location: east-tn
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| Tires. A tire not 100% true at the start of it's life will slowly get worse an it will develope a gradual wear pattern. U can balance it every day if u want but it will still be out of bal when driven. Used to be able to ;true them up but is not legal?? Bugs 4 yrs and 90+ of super problems were wheel/tires. |
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allsidius
Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010
Posts: 1481
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| morymob wrote: |
| Tires. A tire not 100% true at the start of it's life will slowly get worse an it will develope a gradual wear pattern. U can balance it every day if u want but it will still be out of bal when driven. Used to be able to ;true them up but is not legal?? Bugs 4 yrs and 90+ of super problems were wheel/tires. |
I beg to differ. I drove these cars in 1980. We never had a problem due to poor balancing. Got the tires from the wrecker's yard, never did anything to them, just smacked them on. Then the cars were 5-10 years. Now, the problem is common. That is because all the rubber bushings have degraded in the 40 years since the cars were new. You can reduce the shimmies with careful on-the-car balancing, but it won't go away till you do the bushings and tie-rods, the full package. The steering damper has minimal impact.
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13701
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| allsidius wrote: |
| morymob wrote: |
| Tires. A tire not 100% true at the start of it's life will slowly get worse an it will develope a gradual wear pattern. U can balance it every day if u want but it will still be out of bal when driven. Used to be able to ;true them up but is not legal?? Bugs 4 yrs and 90+ of super problems were wheel/tires. |
I beg to differ. I drove these cars in 1980. We never had a problem due to poor balancing. Got the tires from the wrecker's yard, never did anything to them, just smacked them on. Then the cars were 5-10 years. Now, the problem is common. That is because all the rubber bushings have degraded in the 40 years since the cars were new. You can reduce the shimmies with careful on-the-car balancing, but it won't go away till you do the bushings and tie-rods, the full package. The steering damper has minimal impact. |
This is on point. You need to insure ALL your tie rods, bushings, ball joints are in good condition. Any worn components will contribute to the shimmy. I worked in a front end/alignment frame shop in the 80's in S. California when theses cars were still very prevalent on the road. We also trued and balanced the tires ON THE CAR. If a customer brought their bug in for the shimmy, the first thing we did was inspect the suspension components/alignment. If those were ok, we'd spin the tires on the car. If the tire was out of round more than an 1/8 of an inch, we'd true them by cutting the high sport off then balance the tires. There's two different points of balance on the front tires. Up and down and side to side. You have to get them perfect. In all cases, the truing and balancing on the car cured it IF the suspension was tight.
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40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33478
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:25 am Post subject: |
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My shimmies were cured (1971 with aftermarket mag wheels) by replacing four tie rod ends, the idler bushing, and the front bushings.
Time again for my "famous" photo of my front bushings, which had a few miles left on them, don't you think?
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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19super73
Hardcore Stock Nazi
Joined: October 18, 2007
Posts: 4350
Location: Cité Soleil
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Blue69Baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Want to see it in action?
Really shows what goes on when the bushings are gone.
Link
Jim
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El Postino
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2008
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| My 71 shimmied so bad at 40-45mph I thought the front wheels were going to fly off on my way to work and as its my daily ride I had to do something about it so, armed with the appropriate tools I drove to a big parking lot and took a line and rolled to a stop using the handbrake. Looking at it from the front I could see the drivers side wheel had no toe-in, it actually had visible toe-out! So I wound the tie rod in til it had visible toe-in and I tested it and repeated this little by little til the shimmy was gone. BTW my buddy wrenched on it one day when I drove my truck to work and didn't tighten one of the lock nuts on one tie rod so double check everything. It drives fine now. I don't drive many miles but when you drive a strut front end you're driving on a knifes edge - anything slightly out of adjustment will show! Even jacking up and lowering the front end can affect the struts and balance if components are worn. Don't bump into concrete stoppers in parking lots either! |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33478
Location: Hot Arizona
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jberry
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2007
Posts: 118
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| That video is a real eye opener.. New tie rods helped mine quite a bit. Guess I know what needs to be replaced next. |
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Captain Jacques
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2013
Posts: 231
Location: Saint Augustine, Florida
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ... And if all of the above fail to solve the problem, make sure one or more of the rims aren't warped or oval. Weider things have happened, even with stock stuff. |
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mountainkowboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2008
Posts: 951
Location: Socal
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| Blue69Baja wrote: |
Want to see it in action?
Really shows what goes on when the bushings are gone.
Link
Jim |
Yeah, I always like this one. Great video. |
Hell of an exhaust leak too!....lol
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Chuck in Socal
________________________________________
71 Super Convertible...DD
78 Honda CB750K
06 Honda CR-V (wifes)
63 IH Scout 80 "Beater" |
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mikeonthebike
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 1010
Location: Sacramento, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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I was told to replace everything at the same time. One reason is worn out parts will cause excess wear on the new parts. If every part is worn a little it will cause a lot of shimmy. As you replace parts it will reduce little by little until all the worn parts are replaced. I bought all the parts for my front end a few at a time until I got everything I needed ( couldn't afford all at once with my budget). Then I replaced all at once. That way I didn't have to take things apart more than once. And only had to pay for one alignment.
Really made a big difference in my front end! Nice and tight like a new car! |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13701
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| mikeonthebike wrote: |
| I was told to replace everything at the same time. |
Sounds like someone trying to sell parts and labor to install them. This is not true. I did alignments for years. If a part showed obvious signs of being worn out, yes we changed it. If the tie rods, bushings, struts, shocks or ball joints or other suspension parts did not have obvious play or slop, we only changed the parts that were obviously worn and would impact the car not staying in alignment. It use to make us sick when a woman or a retired person would come to us for a second opinion after another shop feed them this line of BS and wanted to replace everything on their car. Most of the time, the only problem the car had was being out of alignment which caused tire wear and threw there tires out of balance from the wear. I lost count how many hugs or cash tips I got from these people for being honest w/them.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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scottmc
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2014
Posts: 197
Location: patchogue ny
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| just ordered mine from west coast metric 9.20 for the pair |
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allsidius
Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010
Posts: 1481
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| mikeonthebike wrote: |
| I was told to replace everything at the same time. |
Sounds like someone trying to sell parts and labor to install them. This is not true. I did alignments for years. If a part showed obvious signs of being worn out, yes we changed it. If the tie rods, bushings, struts, shocks or ball joints or other suspension parts did not have obvious play or slop, we only changed the parts that were obviously worn and would impact the car not staying in alignment. It use to make us sick when a woman or a retired person would come to us for a second opinion after another shop feed them this line of BS and wanted to replace everything on their car. Most of the time, the only problem the car had was being out of alignment which caused tire wear and threw there tires out of balance from the wear. I lost count how many hugs or cash tips I got from these people for being honest w/them. |
Sounds perfectly reasonable. Nowadays the alignment shops are few and far between, at least where I live. I totally subscribe to the theory of only replacing the defective parts. If you have the knowledge, you will know if the bushing is supposed to move a bit, but how much is a bit? That's where the layman comes short.
To illlustrate my experience:
I had no problems with shimmies when I put my 1973 away in 2000. Got it back in 2007, and it shimmied like hell. It still passed an inspection, although I almost drove off the road on the way back. Was told to replace the idler bushing at the inspection, and it was clearly sloppy. Did that, no improvement in the shimmy. The wheels were balanced off the car. Replaced the steering damper which was totally shot. No change. Replaced all tie-rod ends. Very marginal improvement. Then I had a shop spend half a day, balancing the wheels on the car, rotating the wheels, finding the best wheels for the front (all pretty good, the rims were NOS in 1997. That did it, almost. It doesn't shimmy now, but I can still feel slight vibration at about 50 mph. I guess the bushings are next on the list but now the car drives nice. They are 42 years old now, so I am not going to complain to VW. The only thing stopping me is to decide whether urethane will give me a harsher ride compared to the original rubber, while I know that the rubber quality available is dog poop compared to the quality of 1972.
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1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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