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Some things just are not easy to do. Oil Temp Sender
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pete000
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Some things just are not easy to do. Oil Temp Sender Reply with quote

I just got a VDO Oil temp sender that replaces the oil pan drain plug. Sounds easy right. Not so easy. Decided to change my oil today and go ahead and replace the drain plug with the sender. Nope. The new sender drain plug when fully threaded into the pan leaves no room for a wrench to tighten it "Good Grief." The oil pan has a flange surronding the drain plug (Not Sure what its purpose is). The socket would have to be nearly paper thin to get in there and tighten the plug.

I did a search and just found one solution of replacing the high side pressure switch with the oil temp sender having to remotely locate the pressure switch. Was hoping to avoid this.

Any one deal with this issue ?
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1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
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1974 Porsche 914 2.5
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deprivation
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may or may not help you but I had a similar problem just getting the drain plug OUT of my 2.1L. Have a look:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2137091&highlight=#2137091

You may have to get creative with the tools you use, as I did.
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete,

I assume you got the one from Bus Boys. I had fits with mine. If you tried to remove it using the brass insert for the temp, it would come out,not the plug. So I went to my local FLAPS and got a cheap .79 19mm socket. Put the extender in, chucked it in the drill press. Got my Dremel with a cut off wheel. Started the socket spinning and the dremel on high speed grinding the socket down to the minimum on the lip. The resulting socket will now fit the plug and can be used for insertion and extraction. Just don't expect to be able to put 50 ftlbs on it anymore.
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deprivation
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogpilot: An SE? Get a newer Mac for crap's sake! I felt bad about my old Lombard Powerbook - but now...
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, this is one of two SE's I own along with a Mac Plus. I got the second SE last night, for the princely sum of $20. I am stuffing another Mac Mini in it for grins. What is truly a hoot is it came with a working ethernet card and a copy of Netscape! It takes about 4 minutes to load the home page for the Samba.

The kids like playing the old retro games on the SE, like missile command and the like. There is tons of Abandonware out there for free. Personally, I use a new 24" iMac 2.8 ghz running a dual 24" HD display or a Macbook Pro 17".

My original idea for the Vanputer was like this, we just laughed too hard to finish it:
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pete000
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys, I am glad I am not the only one with this dilemma with this drain plug temp sender. I am now off to Sears to find a socket and grind it down.
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1974 Porsche 914 2.5
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Lanval
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or you can go another way, which is to place the oil temp sender elsewhere. Here's some pix of the usual alternative, courtesy of Scott's German Supply.

http://picasaweb.google.com/Lanval.de.logres/OilTempSenders

One is a porsche (the old one) the other is the Scott's version. About 50 bux, but easier to access.

Best,
Lanval
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JunkYarDog
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone provide more details on the oil temp system, who makes it where can it be purchased, is it a good idea, etc.
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pete000
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where would that plate be located on a 2.1 waterboxer?
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1974 Porsche 914 2.5
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JunkYarDog
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More importantly where do you get the temp unit?
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mtac
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pete,
i did the opposite, kind of, of what dogpilot did
i used my trusty dremel and worked that flange that encircles the drain plug hole. it didnt take a whole lot and i also used a thin wall socket
that being said, its a lousy set up at best, with the connector wire strung across the bottom of the sump.
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to this page and scroll down to the oil temp senders:

http://www.bus-boys.com/bbvdo.htm

VDO-323057B Oil Temp Sender, Replaces Drain Plug, Wasserboxer Vanagon 1983 to 1991 $22.50
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pete000
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(VDO-323057B Oil Temp Sender, Replaces Drain Plug, Wasserboxer Vanagon 1983 to 1991 $22.50)

This is the one I am trying to use. I can't find any other way to get the oil temp. on this engine.

I see that the plate is for the older engines. No use here.

I picked up a cheap socket at Lowes and will grind it down tomorrow. I have used oil pan drain plug senders on other cars with pretty good luck. I agree the wire haning down there kind of sucks.

I had a Porsche 944 and they provided a plug up on the side of the pan which made for and easy spot to use. I have even bolted them into steel pans on cars. This Water Boxer makes it tough !
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1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
1974 Porsche 914 2.5
--------------------
Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to see the Samba in retro computer style:

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98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
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Lanval
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try looking at this link - 10c's setup for his oil pressure is quite elegant, but I'm wondering if you couldn't use the same block position for the oil temp?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=193593

Best,

Lanval
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24inchstance
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heres what im using. I made this with a dremel and a 19mm open box wrench. Works pretty darn good. This tool idea courtesy of Mellow Cat.
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pete000
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, made my custom drain plug tool and got the drain plug temp sender in.

While I was at it I decided to put in the remote VDO oil pressure sender. That ting is a real pain to get to. Now that it is all installed I notice when the engine is hot and the idle is around 900 the oil pressure light blinks some times. Any one else experience this. Looks like the VDO sender is a bit more sensitive than the stock sender. Owners manual says this can happen even with the stock set up. I haven't finished the wiring to the guage so havent goten an actual reading of PSI yet. I'll post pics soon.
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1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
1974 Porsche 914 2.5
--------------------
Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you use the dual sender? If so, it never worked correctly for me and scores of others on this site. You really want to do a 'T' like this (the wires are much prettier now) get the T in NPT from any hardware store in brass:
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98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you're OK with it, but I just could not stomach the idea of a vulnerable wire across the underside of my engine. I drive thru high grass and brush frequently, it's almost a mandatory condition to get to my house at times, so doing it that way was out of the question. Plus, I hate oil drips and I find I need to tighten the drain plug pretty hard to get a good seal, and a brass sender plug is eventually going to shear off with that kind of use. They aren't designed to be drain plugs; they're built to be permanently-mounted senders. Drain plugs are steel for a good reason. I drive my van a lot so it gets oil changes several times a year.

As I already had an OP gauge, I had relocated my low-pressure switch along with the gauge sender, so adding the high-pressere switch to my little remote manifold was a piece of cake. Pressure there, even at the end of an 18" tube, will be very nearly the same as it is in the lifter galley where the stock low-pressure switch is normally installed, the only difference being the head-loss due to the difference in height, less than 1psi. The toughest thing was hunting down the right-sized OT sender and paying for it when I already had the M14x1.5 sender that was included with my new gauge. That was a bank-breaker, a whole 25 bucks, here:

http://www.egauges.com/vdo_send.asp?Sender=300F_150C

The benefit of measuring the temp at the ideal location was more than worth the extra cost to me, especially since I have a remote oil cooler, so sump temp was not going to be useful to know.

Building the tubing extension and sender manifold is child's play, and less actual work than figuring out how you will secure the VDO OP sender with the flex-hose VanCafe and others supply, or custom-making a tool to get around the OT sender in the drain hole recess. It also gets all the OP senders and wiring up top, where they are better-protected and you can quickly see if there is any leakage or wire damage. The brass fittings to build the whole thing are easy to find at any hardware store and cost maybe $20 in total. I actually had most of the stuff already lying around in my plumbing supplies. Putting the OT sender in the rear loaction is a breeze when you remove the water pump pulley.

So, when you get tired of the temp wire falling off, or after your first time removing the sheared-off sender from the oil drain hole a few years down the line, don't be afraid to take the time to do the job right. I know I sound like TK, but I really think the sender as a drain plug is the wrong way to go.

Oh, yeah, the VDO dual-OP sender has long been known to be inferior. The idiot light setpoint is wrong, and the gauge sender isn't considered as relaible as the stand-alone gauge sender. You should use the stand-alone gauge sender and tee in the OEM idiot light switch for the most reliable installation.
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pete000
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep I agree. I dont like drain plug senders or dip stick senders one bit.

What seemed like an easy job sure isn't.

Now I have to build a double "T" set up and pull off the pump pully. I checked out your installation before and was wondering how in the heck to get to that pressure sender on the back of the engine with out pulling the motor out. I can hardly even see the thing ! Is it the same thread as the drain plug sender ? if not where do I source on of those?

Why don't they tell us that the VDO Dual poll senders are not compatable with the Vanagon ? If so many people have tried and had no luck why do they keep selling them ! I feel a bit ripped off on this one.

Thanks for all the imput and suggestions !
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1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
1974 Porsche 914 2.5
--------------------
Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats
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