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wagohn
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014
Posts: 744
Location: United States
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 Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:30 am Post subject: Window Guides and Rattling |
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Hello,
Our 76 bus came to us with a drivers door that is just the door shell and a window glass that winds up and down. No scrapers, channel felt, or trim etc. The glass would rattle like crazy when driving.
I did some research and from what I can see the channel guide/felt keeps the window on track as you wind the glass up and down.
We installed new channel guide/felt and it 'sort of' works until the window winds all the way down, then the glass jumps the guides because the door frame is no longer supporting the channel guide/felt. To wind back up, we then have to manually line up the glass to get back in the groove of the channel guide/felt.
What are we doing wrong here? What should hold the glass in place for winding up/down the window?
Thanks. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 52812
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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Did you replace the strip on the back of the vent window track too?
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wagohn
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014
Posts: 744
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| Did you replace the strip on the back of the vent window track too? |
Yes, and everything is fine until I reach the window being all the way down. At that point the strip is no longer supported by the window frame and the glass falls out of the strip. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 52812
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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Odd, maybe you have to adjust the vent frame so the lower section of the track stays tight on the glass when it's down?, or maybe it's bent?
Did the main channel that goes around the top of the hole and down the back reach all the way to the end of that track? Some seem to come up a little short lately on early bays, later ones like yours have a shorter track so I guess it works OK on them.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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wagohn
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014
Posts: 744
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
Odd, maybe you have to adjust the vent frame so the lower section of the track stays tight on the glass when it's down?, or maybe it's bent?
Did the main channel that goes around the top of the hole and down the back reach all the way to the end of that track? Some seem to come up a little short lately on early bays, later ones like yours have a shorter track so I guess it works OK on them. |
Thanks. That's what I don't understand. The rubber/felt track material is flexible, so when the window is all the way down, how is the glass expected to remain in a guide that is flexible?
I'm wondering if I'm missing a metal type guide channel for when the window is all the way down and no longer supported by the window framing in the door. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 52812
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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The extra metal rear guide extension was deleted ~76, the glass is held in place by the full length front channel and the upper 1/3 of the back when it's down.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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wagohn
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014
Posts: 744
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| The extra metal rear guide extension was deleted ~76, the glass is held in place by the full length front channel and the upper 1/3 of the back when it's down. |
Thanks for that. That's probably where I'm messing up then. For the rear guide I have the track approx 6" below the door. For the front, maybe 2".
Long shot, but does anyone have a picture of how long/deep the guides should go below the scraper areas?
Thank you |
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pioneer1
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Joined: February 11, 2008
Posts: 2074
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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Did you cut the felts? The short is 32 and the long is 47"
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wagohn
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014
Posts: 744
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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| pioneer1 wrote: |
| Did you cut the felts? The short is 32 and the long is 47" |
Yes I did, but thanks for this because I had no idea they were specific lengths. I take it the longer goes to the rear and curves the top rear corner?
Come to think of it, I don't think the new pieces I have are 47 inches long without cutting. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 52812
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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The last few I've installed were too short for an early bay as is, but just about right for the later doors.
Tell us about how you adjusted the window to regulator bolts as well as where the bottom of the regulator mounts in the bottom of the door, both holes are slotted and sound like you have to slide things forward a bit to solve your issues.
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wagohn
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014
Posts: 744
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
The last few I've installed were too short for an early bay as is, but just about right for the later doors.
Tell us about how you adjusted the window to regulator bolts as well as where the bottom of the regulator mounts in the bottom of the door, both holes are slotted and sound like you have to slide things forward a bit to solve your issues. |
Well, TBH. I didn't adjust the regulator. I presumed the window was correctly positioned. Are you talking about the two bolts in the bracket that grips the window?
Im still not really getting how the bendable cut-to-length guide is supposed to hold a heavy glass in place by itself when the window is fully down.
Also, I should have maybe mentioned this sooner, but the guide Im using comes in approx 3' lengths, and it has 'Beetle' printed on the sale sticker. Im assuming its the same guide used on a bus? These were PO provided parts that came with the bus, along with new scrapers and chrome trim.
Thanks all. |
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wagohn
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014
Posts: 744
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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Spent some time studying the whole setup yesterday and decided to fit the inner scraper to help "support" the glass. What a pain, the wire on the scraper refused to go in the mounting holes and finally snapped. From research, it seems this is a common issue and many use the wire from their old scraper - which I dont have. So I placed a blob of JB Weld at each mount point. Hokey, but it's all I had.
The window seemed more secure with the inner scraper in place but not ideal. So I compared the felt guide on the good passenger side to the door Im working on - the driver's side. Totally different in size. The passenger side felt seems about a 1/3rd larger than the guide the PO provided - so I think the issue is I need true VW Bus felt guides.
On a different note. The outer scraper the PO provided appears to fit the door frame, but the mounting holes are way off. Is this expected? How do i get around this - JB Weld? 
Thanks |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 52812
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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Ahhh..., I was not aware odd parts may be in play here, that will add to the problems for sure.
The outer scraper is part of the aluminum trim that surrounds the opening, it's riveted to it and the trim assembly clips in to the door.
Maybe it's time for you to post some pictures of what you are dealing with.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 4099
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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| wagohn wrote: |
| ... but the mounting holes are way off. Is this expected? How do I get around this ... |
Seems to be par for the course these days. I paid a pretty penny for Bus Depot's "best quality" outer scrapers, and they
had to be modified in several places to fit the upper door frame channel. The lower rubber section had the clips in the correct
positions, but they were shaped differently than the originals and simply would not go in the holes in the door. After
struggling for several hours, trying every tool and method I could think of, not a single clip would go in. I finally resorted
to removing the clips and attaching the damn thing with sheet metal screws.
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wagohn
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014
Posts: 744
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
| wagohn wrote: |
| ... but the mounting holes are way off. Is this expected? How do I get around this ... |
Seems to be par for the course these days. .... I finally resorted
to removing the clips and attaching the damn thing with sheet metal screws. |
For my outer, this may be what I have to do. The holes in the frame are at least 1" out of alignment to the new outer scraper. There is no way they will fit.
For the inner, the JB weld seems to be holding well. The window is staying in place now, thanks to the scraper stopping the window from moving when at its lowest, though I will order the correct felt guides.
On another note. It took me an hour to clean-out the inside of the door from 3/4" of damp mud that had settled on the horizontal surfaces. I used a hose as the mud had been sitting there for years, so whats the difference if I gently hose it. Took 30 mins just to clear enough debris so that the drain holes were visible. Only surface rust after cleaning, but I will treat it with Penotrol and paint.
The Bus has sat outside for many years, with the last 9 months spent through the WA state seasons on the PO's front lawn - not running.
Happy to say it now has a dry garage to call home and runs beautifully. |
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wagohn
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Joined: June 24, 2014
Posts: 744
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Window Guides and Rattling |
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Just to put a top hat on the thread, I managed to fit the outer scraper today. I was pushed to do so because I kept bending the thing as it lay around the garage.
Also, I'm an idiot. Once I had the 1\4 window out, the outer scraper clips did indeed line up correctly with the holes in the door. Took about an hour to fit the scraper, but all back together now.
So since starting this thread, I added to the door; a full seal, inner scraper, outer scraper, and all new guide felt and clips. What a difference. The driving experience went from a rattling, windy, noisy window, to no more breezes, no more rattle, minimal exterior noise, and now I can actually hear the radio or purr of the motor.
Thanks all |
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