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Tim Herzog
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2014
Posts: 1
Location: Post Falls Idaho
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 Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:49 pm Post subject: 1/4 mile times for stock '65 VW .. |
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In '65 I bought a brand new 40 hp bug from a dealership in Chicago. Since I was involved in drag racing and already a mechanic & tool & die apprentice and building engines, I decided to run this blue bug at the strip.
My first run at Union Grove Wisconsin (Great Lakes Drag-A-Way) against 5 or 6 other VW's and one Carmen Ghia netted me a $3 trophy. I must have run about 20 seconds plus but less than 21 seconds.
The next time I came up from Chicago to run, I again beat all the competitors and back in the pits, the officials flagged me down with a protest for a fuel check. They thought I was cheating with AV gas but it was Sunoco 260 pump gas at 104 octane.
The third visit at the track about a month later, with a new clutch, again netted me the win against the same boys who were not happy and protested for an engine tear down. They put $75 up but I refused and was disqualified even though I had just set the track record time for that class, stock VW @ 20 seconds flat and 69 mph! I was a full second faster than then next closest time.
All I did was run the valves a little tighter, which increases cam timing, run 104 octane, hollowed out the exhaust tips and what no one else probably thought off, 50#'s in the front tires and backed off brakes adjusters for no drag and 45#'s in the rear tires so they would brake loose and spin mostly though 1st gear, keeping the rpm/torgue range up before banging 2nd. and that's when my car jumped ahead. I was not afraid of coming out real hard off the line.
I had a lot of experience street dragging many cars and especially 4 speeds. Many times I raced other guys cars at that track and was quite successful, high 12's thru 17's, all stockers.
I am curious what kind of the times other bone stock VW's with a 40hp did back then or now. I have another '65 for sale with a 1500 in it and if it doesn't sell, I might just build it with a Mazda Rotary. 200+hp in a stock looking VW would be fun.
Panther Engineering & Sales
Post Falls, Idaho |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16800
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Was at a small VW show today at a dragstrip and a guy had an early 60s vert that looked stock except for custom wheels. Ran a rotary (dont know the particulars) but he was having serious wheel hop probs and broke something in the transaxle. Was cool as hell though.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3481
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: 1/4 mile times for stock '65 VW .. |
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| Tim Herzog wrote: |
In '65 I bought a brand new 40 hp bug from a dealership in Chicago. Since I was involved in drag racing and already a mechanic & tool & die apprentice and building engines, I decided to run this blue bug at the strip.
My first run at Union Grove Wisconsin (Great Lakes Drag-A-Way) against 5 or 6 other VW's and one Carmen Ghia netted me a $3 trophy. I must have run about 20 seconds plus but less than 21 seconds.
The next time I came up from Chicago to run, I again beat all the competitors and back in the pits, the officials flagged me down with a protest for a fuel check. They thought I was cheating with AV gas but it was Sunoco 260 pump gas at 104 octane.
The third visit at the track about a month later, with a new clutch, again netted me the win against the same boys who were not happy and protested for an engine tear down. They put $75 up but I refused and was disqualified even though I had just set the track record time for that class, stock VW @ 20 seconds flat and 69 mph! I was a full second faster than then next closest time.
All I did was run the valves a little tighter, which increases cam timing, run 104 octane, hollowed out the exhaust tips and what no one else probably thought off, 50#'s in the front tires and backed off brakes adjusters for no drag and 45#'s in the rear tires so they would brake loose and spin mostly though 1st gear, keeping the rpm/torgue range up before banging 2nd. and that's when my car jumped ahead. I was not afraid of coming out real hard off the line.
I had a lot of experience street dragging many cars and especially 4 speeds. Many times I raced other guys cars at that track and was quite successful, high 12's thru 17's, all stockers.
I am curious what kind of the times other bone stock VW's with a 40hp did back then or now. I have another '65 for sale with a 1500 in it and if it doesn't sell, I might just build it with a Mazda Rotary. 200+hp in a stock looking VW would be fun.
Panther Engineering & Sales
Post Falls, Idaho |
I recall Motor Trend's 1965 road test for Q mile at around 21 seconds. I will be going to my office tomorrow and will look in my files for that issue...If I remember.
If you want to pick up some free horsepower on any engine that uses a low lift cam ( like a stock beetle ) grind your intake valves at 29 degrees and your seats at 30 degrees instead of the normal 45 degrees. Pontiac pioneered this technique with the introduction of their V-8 in 1955, Ford followed when it introduced the FE series engines. If you make the mistake of grinding a 300hp 389 Pontiac engine's intake valves with a 45 degree valve angle you will loose about 45-50 horsepower. |
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aircoolnut
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2006
Posts: 157
Location: Spanaway, WA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I had a well used 65 with a 40 horse back in the early 80's. Ran it a couple of times at Seattle International Raceway and Bremerton Raceway in Washington state. Taking into account that the car was 15+ yrs old, I posted 22 at SIR and 21.5 at Bremerton. Only mods were a thunderbird extractor exhaust with a glasspack muffler and a chrome air cleaner with a paper filter. Ran different tires and wheels the second time out at Bremerton which is probably why I was able to shave that half second. |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3481
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Ok finally got around to it.
Motor Trend August 1964 edition page 51
1964 Type 117 deluxe Beetle sunroof
1200 cc 40 hp at 3,900 rpm, 7.0 compression
4.375:1 ring and pinion
Price $1970.00 without tax and licence
Factory rated MPG @31.5 MPG
Test with two people on board
Speeds in gears 1st 22 MPH @ 51,00 RPM
2nd, 37 MPH @ 4,800 RPM
3rd, 55 MPH @ 4,400 RPM
4th, 71 MPH @ 3,800 RPM
ACCELERATION:
0-30 MPH 6.2 seconds
0-45 MPH 13.0 seconds
0-60 MPH 29.5 seconds
Quarter mile 23.35 seconds @ 56 MPH
STOPPING Ability
30-0 MPH 38 ft
60-0 MPH 130 ft.
ACTUAL MPG with spirited driving 24.77 MPG |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3481
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Ok finally got around to it.
Motor Trend August 1964 edition page 51
1964 Type 117 deluxe Beetle sunroof
1200 cc 40 hp at 3,900 rpm, 7.0 compression
4.375:1 ring and pinion
Price $1970.00 without tax and licence
Factory rated MPG @31.5 MPG
Test with two people on board
Speeds in gears 1st 22 MPH @ 5,100 RPM
2nd, 37 MPH @ 4,800 RPM
3rd, 55 MPH @ 4,400 RPM
4th, 71 MPH @ 3,800 RPM
ACCELERATION:
0-30 MPH 6.2 seconds
0-45 MPH 13.0 seconds
0-60 MPH 29.5 seconds
Quarter mile 23.35 seconds @ 56 MPH
STOPPING Ability
30-0 MPH 38 ft
60-0 MPH 130 ft.
ACTUAL MPG with spirited driving 24.77 MPG
Last edited by Helfen on Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brian
Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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hitest
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10324
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Somehow I misplaced my time slip from Firebird Raceway (Boise, ID) when my first '63 beetle ran the 1/4 back in 1989. 
It was primarily a VW show- but you could time your car if you wanted. On the last run of the day (my only run), they asked me to estimate what my car could do so they could pair me with another VW. I blurted out 22, so they wrote that on my window. They paired me with a rail-job looking dragster! When my light flashed- I took off as fast as I had ever driven my bug. Forever later, the other lane's light finally flashed-and that dragster took off after me. That racer passed me like I was standing still right before the finish line. I placed really well because my bone stock bug actually ran a 22.12 or something. That was the only time I ever drove a car on a dragstrip.
I need to find that slip- if I recall, the "ink" had completely faded to unreadability. I wonder what my current stock '63 will do, it's got biasplys!
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| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3481
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian wrote: |
| Helfen, size of tires? |
5.60 X 15 tire and a 4.5" X 15 wheel |
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