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vw type 4 rocker arms
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thesea
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:32 pm    Post subject: vw type 4 rocker arms Reply with quote

have 1972 vw bus with 1700cc motor. Have rocker arms in a box. Need to know where the washers go. I have 4 washers. Will 2.0 late model rocker arms fit the 1700? Should I replace the rocker shafts, since the parts are in a box, and I don't know where each one went? I know where the rocker arms go, but would like help the washer placement on the arms. Thanks in advance. New member, 1972 Westfailia Camper, with hopefully a new motor. Thanks, John Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do you have a Bentley manual? Look at picture 10.1 thru 10.5 under engine rebuilding
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Later rockers using 10mm adjusting screws will work fine.

When you remove the rocker assembly have some 3" long 1/4" diameter bolts available to slip into the holes in the stand. This will keep the assembly together.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But....dont throw away or lose the 1.7 rocker arm set. They will fit any type 4 engine and are the only ones that can use swivel foot adjusters....which are a nice mod. Ray
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swivel foot adjusters....which are a nice mod

I agree as long as you can find good quality ones. I'd rather use stock adjusters rather than Chinese crap.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have also heard about ratio rocker can some one explained the advantage and disadvantage to installing a set of them?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex6373 wrote:
I have also heard about ratio rocker can some one explained the advantage and disadvantage to installing a set of them?


One a Type 4 I don't know that anything other than stock is available. Others will surely let me know if I am wrong.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
swivel foot adjusters....which are a nice mod

I agree as long as you can find good quality ones. I'd rather use stock adjusters rather than Chinese crap.


Not saying I have expensive habits (what am I saying....im restoring a 412 Laughing )...but I abstained from whiskey and beer for a few weeks and bought Porsche swivel feet....the real thing.
over the years I have used virtually every brand out there. Either Porsche or Ford/Mazda no comparison and no problems. Ray

Edit: type 4 store still has Porsche swivel feet adjuster screws . Yes.... $252 for 8. Thats $31.50 per screw.

Sounds horrible.....but not really. Original equipment 8mm adjuster screws with properly hardened tip.....last time I found some NOS that were of KNOWN quality.....they ran me close to $9 each.
The original Porsche swivel feet (for that matter any swivel feet) have a lot more machining and much better materials. The first set I ever had.....I scavenged from a Porsche in the junkyard. Had plenty of miles on them and I rancthem another 110k miles before I had one fail. Bought a new one here or there over the next 50k miles from Automobile Atlanta. Those were $20 each 15+ years ago.
When I built a new engine I could not afford a new set of Porsche so I started using .....cheaper ones. Bugpak, maybe somd EMPI......half ball, crimped elephant foot. All types.
none of them lasted more than 30k miles without issues.

Actually if you buy one of the cam kits from the type 4 store and add up the goodies and what you save....the Porsche adjusters are almost free.


Last edited by raygreenwood on Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Alex6373 wrote:
I have also heard about ratio rocker can some one explained the advantage and disadvantage to installing a set of them?


One a Type 4 I don't know that anything other than stock is available. Others will surely let me know if I am wrong.


I think that you are correct. At one time Pauter may have made a set....but for that price you can buy new heads for a street engine. Ray

Edit: yep....Pauter lists type 4 rockers on their site. Probably roller rockers with bronze bushings. Their 911 rocker pictures show "real" porsche swivel feet so I assume they cancget them.
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thesea
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have ordered a manual, and will try to find out the right way to put them in. Have heard it all from shims to washers....will look at the manual. Type 4 store has a kit...but absolutely no customer support and a $100.00 minimum order. Kit is $20.00. Washers, spacers, are only available in the junk yard for the rocker arms. Still don't know how many I need......John
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thesea
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never throw anything away, Still have the bus, don't I. 20 years, time to order a manual.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:09 pm    Post subject: Type IV (4) Rocker arms Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanks to jerseylooker
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/EarlyBay-Main.html
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by Tcash on Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thesea wrote:
Have ordered a manual, and will try to find out the right way to put them in. Have heard it all from shims to washers....will look at the manual. Type 4 store has a kit...but absolutely no customer support and a $100.00 minimum order. Kit is $20.00. Washers, spacers, are only available in the junk yard for the rocker arms. Still don't know how many I need......John


I have that solid spacer kit. Its excellent.

What kind of customer support are you wanting? Its a 20 dollar spacer kit. Its not a diffichlt install and there are a zillion posts/articles for valve geometry and adjusting here and elsewhere. Ray
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old DKP driver
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:00 pm    Post subject: Porsche Valve adjusting screws & Nuts Reply with quote

You can actually buy Porsche Factory Adjusters & Nuts for $ 192.00 from
www.pelicanparts.com or any other supplier like Stoddard Porsche.
and others www.autoatlanta.com.

As for the rocker shafts, they can be redone or replaced depending on the wear
which you will need to check for galling and fretting.

Rocker shafts usually have a lot of wear and is easily felt with your finger nail.

Also when upgrading to Swivel feet adjusters it's important to also upgrade to
better rocker are shaft studs.
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thesea
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first diagram was the one I needed and I am 4 short...thank you very much. Appreciate all of the help...hope the manual comes quick.
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thesea
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Customer support at Type 4 was nonexistent. $100.00 minimum order? Come on. I do appreciate the advice on a solid spacer kit, and if I go that route will probably order the four rocker shafts too. Then I'll make their minimum order anyway. Everyone in the world knows how to work on a volkswagen, and you can get bad information. Feeling it's important to put things together the right way, who better to go to than the people that are making the after market kit? That would sell things quicker...with less problems, and improve their business.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:48 pm    Post subject: rocker shafts and hardware Reply with quote

Yes, iks was easier years ago ehen these items were newer. I have been hoarding parts for many years But also gave away thousands of dollars of these parts not knowing that the cost would go sky-high Embarassed

There were many Vendors that made the Rocker spacers before some of the Newbies including CB performance. and Jake was NOT the 1st.

all this goes way ......................Back to the 1970's and is NOT new Shocked
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thesea
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even the assembly diagrams are not on line and are probably proprietary after all of these years. Bottom line is I will either need to find four washers or get a solid kit.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thesea wrote:
Even the assembly diagrams are not on line and are probably proprietary after all of these years. Bottom line is I will either need to find four washers or get a solid kit.


You have a PM.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thesea wrote:
Customer support at Type 4 was nonexistent. $100.00 minimum order? Come on. I do appreciate the advice on a solid spacer kit, and if I go that route will probably order the four rocker shafts too. Then I'll make their minimum order anyway. Everyone in the world knows how to work on a volkswagen, and you can get bad information. Feeling it's important to put things together the right way, who better to go to than the people that are making the after market kit? That would sell things quicker...with less problems, and improve their business.



Actually....if you are rebuilding an engine 9and doing it well)....and you do the homework....you will see that you need virtually everything in their cam kits.

From the long ago discussions on other forums of what goes into the parts that go into the kits in the type 4 store......they cannot afford to nickle and dime dinky little parts for those convinced this is still a cheap hobby.

They will never be able to compete with all the rest that sell made in China crap.

They make the individual parts and order minimum high to guide you toward the kit....which is a bargain....and in general....what you need anyway.

Take a look at some of the parts discussed just in the last 10 posts that most agree are needed....or would be good to have

Rocker shafts....new
Better rocker studs + nuts + washers
Quality swivel feet + nuts
Solid spacers

And things you should be buying if you are smart rebuilding a type 4...

New cam
Matching lifters
New cam bearings....double thrust is better
Usually new pushrods if you are REALLY setting geometry correctly. Preferably cut to length by you to properly set geometry.
New valve springs.....far too cheap and important an item to waste your time on zillion mile stock springs
New valve retainers
New cam gear (optional)

Price the cam kit they sell.....and its a steal...because you get every bit of what I just listed.... in the kit. One shipping price, no screwing around....and all quality parts.

Let me know where you find new rocker shafts for the type 4...set up to take stronger 8mm bolts....or even stock bolts.

I definitely dont work for the type 4 store. But I saw the value about 3 years ago and bought my cam kit and it was a steal.

I remember that Jake Raby quit selling cam kits for a period of time primarily because far too many people complaining about cost and minimum purchase.....but he was smart enough to know that if you are going to warrant valve train parts.....what the part is connected to and how its installed is as important as the quality of the single part you sell.

If you sell it piecemeal its too hard to warrant....and far too hard to afford quality manufacturing
When he sold the store....they went back to selling cam kits.

If you are working on type 4 engines.....the heads and valve train are expensive. Get used to it.

I have no issue with a $100 minimum at the type 4 store. If I'm buying that level of parts...a $20 spacer kit should not be the only parts I'm looking for anyway.
If the issue is that you dont have the money....then wait and save your money.......its a type 4 engine.

Or....you can buy piecemeal from other places...and gamble on quality...maybe.....maybe not.

Or.....you can simply make the spacers yourself. You can buy the necessary tube from McMaster car, along with hardened shims if needed and springs. You will need to cut them exactly square and check them with a micrometer. And will need to do some measuring of an existing part to know what size to make.
Sounds like a lot of work?.....now you know why $20 is a bargain.
Just sayin......Ray
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