Steering shaft assembly - wheel end

[gerg]

I must be off on terms lately, been searching with not much luck.

I need to put the hardware back together on the steering wheel end of my steering shaft. I have the following:

spring seat
spring
(3) flat brass washers with a section notched out on OD
snap ring

My horn worked years ago before disassembly.

The Bentley shows a plastic sleeve about 3" in length over the shaft, and a plastic washer above the spring. Neither of which I have / had.

Were those possibly earlier years (I hear the '60 to '61 was quite different, but the book covers all).

I need to know what I am missing or how it goes back together.

The Bentley also only shows 1 of those brass washers with the section notched out.

Anyone have a diagram or words of wisdom?

This is for a '65 deluxe.

Also - does the bearing not provide continuity to or short between the steering shaft and tube? Maybe that is what the plastic sleeve I see is for?

Not sure where I will find one of those.
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[gerg]

This is the diagram in the Bentley - I founf it here under a '60 - '61 thread:

I don't have the plastic washer or insulating sleeve.

Did they disappear after '61?
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[glutamodo]

Yes, those extra insulation parts were for 60-61.

It matters not if there's continuity via that bearing. The steering column itself is isolated from ground by the rubber coupling disk. The steering column tube has the tab there by the gas tank that goes to the horn, and is thus, "live" but is isolated from ground by various pieces of rubber from the body. The only path to ground is the wire that comes up past the steering coupler disk, through the hollow column and up to the horn ring (ok, horn bar on a 65), which is isolated by plastic spacers. So thus, only the horn bar is grounded, everything else is "live"... Push the horn bar down and the brass contact under it hits the brass ring embedded in the steering wheel and then the horn has a ground path and sounds.

-Andy

[gerg]

Thanks Andy - That is exactly what I was thinking- but all the other threads were really confusing me.

The isolation happens at the coupler, and at the horn bar correct?

One other problem I had was that the spring seat goes on to the shaft with the flat washer face towards the spring correct?

I assume the edge of this seat will stop on the very thin ledge I see in the steering shaft?

In other words, when I press the spring on with the top washer, what keeps the lower spring seat from just sliding down the shaft?
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[gerg]

Here is what I have . . .

Look OK?
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[gerg]

Andy - Did you see the pic above?

Anyone know if I am missing anything?

If I push hard enough that lower spring seat will slip past the very small ledge that seems to be holding it in place on the shaft.
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[glutamodo]

Yeah I saw it but I don't have a ready answer for you. I don't have one apart to look at. Something doesn't look quite right though - well, one thiang, it's too clean! But the three notched washers doesn't seem right either. As for the spring seat, I thought that once installed in the column tube it all fit together tighter and stayed in place.

[gerg]

The base of that spring seat actually fits nicely into the column bearing (centers the assembly nicely) and I am sure once the shaft is attached to the steering gear, and the column tube is fixed all will be fine.

I only see one of those three washers called out in the Bentley. My book has a slightly different pic then the one above - at least I think it does.

I'll look again.

Thanks Andy.
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[gerg]

Just found this '66 photo on here and it looks like his spring is above the snap ting . . Does not look like there is enough room for the spring to compress and allow the wheel to engage the splines.

Man I am seriously brain farting as I took this all apart less than 2 weeks ago.

_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[gerg]

OK, maybe '66 is different.

I just looked closely at the Bentley assembly picture and in this order the say (listed in order they slide onto the shaft):

spring seat
spring
contact ring
plastic ring*
snap ring

* I don't have a plastic ring, and thought it was mentioned earlier that the plastic ring and insulating sleeve were '60ish parts.

So, my spring is definitely UNDER the snap ring and contact ring. Unlike the picture above.

Also, I am assuming the 'contact ring' is the notched ring that the canceler on the back of the steering wheel engages.

The book only shows (1) of them instead of my 3.

No mention of what holds the spring seat from sliding down however. They just show the shaft in a vice, and the seat pushed up against the vice jaw.
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[crowe66]

This is from my 61-65 Bentley. Sorry i dont have pic but....

Steering Column
Insulating sleeve
spring seat
contact spring
contact ring
plastic washer
circlip
spring washer
steering wheel nut

[gerg]

Thanks, mine shows the same in the exploded diagram.

Look on the next page and you'll see the vice picture I described above.

I may just need to go find another steering shaft to look at to double check.

Sounds like the plastic ring and sleeve may be earlier parts.
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[crowe66]

gerg i was reading the thread "horn wont stop honking" just above this post. take a look it may help you. it speaks of the insulation sleeve.

[gerg]

Andy, here is a little assurance for me - at least on the brass 'notched' washer . . . this one is just under the snap ring like mine, although I don't think I need (3) of them

_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[glutamodo]

That's the 60-61 setup, but yeah.

Actually, since I have to break out my 27mm anyway to reposition the steering wheel on my baja (66 column on that one) I was going to take a look a how that is set up, and then maybe on my 62. Stand by for a photo or two.

-Andy

[gerg]

Thanks Andy - very interested to see how your '66 compares to the column pictured a few posts above.
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[glutamodo]

MY 66 column didn't even have the brass washer on top! But this car was pieced together by a previous owner - 61 body, 66 frame with other 67-68 parts on it.

And, the horn works fine on this, and self-cancels fine. It's got a Formula Vee VW-accessory style steering wheel on it.

And my 62- only one notched brass washer. I did pop the circlip off of this but didn't really feel like digging in any further than this today:

And, sort of off-topic, how's this for great quality control for a USA made tool. Yesterday I was trying to find a 27mm socket, I thought I had a couple of them, one in the toolbox in each of my bugs plus one in my toolbox in the house here, but only could find one. So I bought one when I was in town shopping. Got this at Menards - tool made by Allen, USA. It's not 27mm, more like 29mm. Took this photo of it with a 27mm-head tranny bolt in it:

[gerg]

Yep, American made isn't what it used to be!

Thanks for the photos Andy!

I'll remove (2) of those contact rings and call it a day.

Koch's will be delivering my new wheel in a few weeks and I want the column in place for the new baby.

Thanks again!
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[racerock]

Classic novel with the last chapter printed as blank pages... What was the outcome????

[boscoitalia]

this thread was uber helpful for me figuring out wtf was wrong.. and why my 61 horn went off on its own..

here is what i have found and hopefully its helpful

- get a good rag joint. - an old sloppy one causes the steering shaft to hit the edges of the tube where you don't want it and the shaft walks up and down the tube which causes the next issue...

-make sure the little plastic sleeve has not walked down the tube or cracked itself off the steering shaft. Real important as it isolates the spring and mechanism from just setting off the horn. If it walked itself down the steering shaft its a real pain to get back without disassembly - or if its gone all together, don't know if there is any replacements- i fortunately had mine but had to do some superglue surgery to use it.

if it all aligns correctly - the contact ring wont be out of round and ground out and make the horn go off- the plastic tube is the key- all the components sit on it- and the fiber washer keeps the isolation game going from the cancelling/ contact ring on the top of the shaft. -
way way over complicated design. but once all parts are in order it works -

see pic attached as I tried to draw out the order in where the parts are set.