Positive rear camber issue

[62slitty]

Hey all....

Have an issue. Been working on an 62 singlecab and recently rebuilt the whole back end. Before starting the rebuild, this vehicle had an extreme positive camber on the back wheels. I didn't think much about it considering I was planning on replacing the spring plate bushings and resetting the angle of the plates. The job was completed slowly and methodically. I followed several manuals and posts to make sure the vehicle was level and the angle was at 20 degrees. After getting the motor and all back together with a quick spin around the block. Not to mention me jumping up and down on the back end, the camber never settled in. I feel like something is off. It looks like I need to redo the job setting the plates at a lower angle contrary to what all manuals say. Any suggestions as to why I still have this camber that will certainly kill my tires in no time flat....

Any help would be appreciated.

[chrisflstf]

You may have to adjust it in order to get the correct camber and not worry about the angle of the spring plate

[flemcadiddlehopper]

I think in the lowering sticky section there is a table that someone methodically made with the number of teeth (inside and outside) of the torsion bar to turn and what degrees of change it makes.

Gordo.
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[62slitty]

Thanks for the replies.

It seems apparent that something is off. Considering I set the plates at 20 degrees and still have this camber issue. I figured I will get the angle of the rim as it sits now and subtract a few degrees off the spring plates and see where this leaves me. I hope I can get it right with one more try. I wonder if 1 degree angle of rim equals 1 degree angle of spring plate?
As far as the second reply, the teeth on the outside and inside of the torsion bar to get various angles makes perfect sense to me. That is not the issue.
My question is why? What would cause this setting to be off so far? Everything looks straight with this vehicle. No apparent damage throughout its life. We're some models build with harder springs ( I assume it is a spring of sorts inside the axle that the torsion bar slides into) to handle heavier loads?

[cdennisg]

the angle/degrees of camber have no direct correlation to the angle/degrees of the spring plate.

Forget about 20 degrees. Don't bother with the protractor. Once you get to the point of disassembly that you have the truck up on jackstands and the spring plates loose from the torsion tube casting, measure the distance from the lowest point of the spring plate to the floor. Using the inner and outer spline combos, change the rotation of the torsion bar/spring plate to get the appropriate amount of change as measured to the floor. You may need to drop the rear (raise the springplate) an inch or so. Reassemble and check your height.

The Bentley manual, and the specific shop procedures for these vehicles assume that they are not 50 years old. Time changes these things and you need to be fluid in order to make them work properly. It may take a few rounds to get things set exactly the way you want them.
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[62slitty]

Thanks cdennisg.

Fluidity....Looks like my left brain is getting in the way again. Damn left brain!

[earlywesty]

So, did you get this sorted...

I am dealing with same issue currently as well and would love some advice. I have too much positive camber, more than the 'acceptable' amount. The bus sits at a nice stock height, does not need to go up or down IMHO.

- '58 bus with big nut RGB setup, Concept 1 adapter on tunnel transmission. Lowly 165/15 bug tires. I'd like go to correct tires this year but only if they aren't going to wear prematurely.

- The only other factor that may come in to play here is on my bus the C1 adapter pushed my engine & transmission back a bit; I had to slot the tranny carrier holes to get everything lined up. I think this might affect toe, but not camber.

- shocks are old and original and likely worn out. Plan to replace for this season.

- In 3K miles last year the bus ate the outside edge of the new rear tires. I cannot afford to go through tires in 3K miles and it also negatively affects the handling.

Yesterday a friend and I installed new NOS torsion bushings and adjusted one outer notch, and we got the expected 7 degree change. This basically lowered the bus so much that you cant even get the rear tire on and spring plate is more than 1/4" above the bump stop. Obviously, not correct and I do not want a lowered bus. It seems to me that trying to correct my positive camber issue will result in a lower-than-stock bus.

Is there any other way to have an impact on camber without affecting height? I know the answer but just had to ask.

Starting point left side (1mm gap to bump stop)

Starting point right side ( gently resting on bump stop)

After one outer spline left side

After one outer spline right side

Even after the one spline camber angle of big nut drum is still 4 -5 degrees

[GTV]

One outer spline is too much. You need a combination of inners and outers to get the correct angle. It will lower your bus, but if you put correct height tires on it, quite a bit taller than the 165's, it will go back to stock height.
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[earlywesty]

yep, I've learned one outer is way too much. Its interesting, spring plate angle was 17.1 degrees prior to starting this (disclaimer bus frame was not level due to being on jack stands). I would think to get to the magic 20degrees the spring plate would have to be rotated the other (a combination of inners and out to get the 3 degree change likely) direction. This in theory would raise the suspension more and exacerbate the positive camber issue.

Also, when I took the covers off it looked like nobody had been in the torsions in 50 + years; I find it strange that it could be off so much.

[earlywesty]

Also, what is the acceptable angle of positive camber (at the drum/wheel) when setting this up? Unfortunately I didn't check mine prior to adjustment but I now have 4 -5 degrees in the incorrect, current position. I bet it was pushing 10 degrees before I pulled it apart, check out that photo.

[sled]

first off, if your tires showed signs of substantial wear in the last 3k miles then you had toe-in issues. A little bit of camber will not wear tires very fast unless the toe is incorrect. The only way to decrease your camber will be to lower the bus. I think some times people misunderstand how the swing axle design works. The wheel travels in a constant arc around an imaginary axis in the center of the differential, to decrease (or increase) camber one needs to either lower or raise the transmission in relation to the wheel.

you're right, one outer spline is way too much, and mentioned above, you will have to play with inner/outer combination until you get it where you want.

the factory camber specs for your bus would be 4 degrees 30' +/- 30'. I would just set the bus to these specifications.

shocks should not have an effect on suspension ride height, if they do then you need new ones.


I generally just rotate my tires somewhat often on my stock buses, helps even out tire wear. But most of all, toe in is the most crucial, especially when you are dealing with a funky transmission mount. Make sure you have the correct toe and make sure the wheels are running true to the centerline of the chassis. It is easy to achieve the correct toe-in measurement while still have the tires 'scrub' while driving down the road. Take accurate measurements from a fixed point that you know is good towards the front of the chassis back to the axle nut.
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[Daddybus]

The bus must be level front to back AND side to side before you take any measurements. Measure the bus while it's resting on its tires. Measure the height in the front and the height in the back to see if the ride height is level. Measure the camber at the rear wheels (I put the protractor on the axle nut). Then put the bus on jack stands. Make sure it's level front-back and side-side. Remove rear wheels , spring plate to axle retaining bolts, and springplate/torsion housing covers. Use a springplate compressing tool and pry the springplate off the stop so the springplate hangs down. Measure the springplate angle with a protractor. One degree of preload is equal to 1/4" of height. Using you ride height measurement, do the math and bring the rear end down to match the height in the front. If the initial front/rear heights are equal to start, then you'll probably only need to take off about an inch worth of preload. Buses and SC/DC were work vehicles so they had about 2 degrees of positive camber when empty so the tires would sit flat when fully loaded (hauling material).

[cdennisg]

Jake is exactly right on this one. Camber is a direct result of ride height with a swing axle setup. The only way to change the camber is to adjust the height. But getting rid of the stupid beetle tries and putting bus tires on there will help immensely.

You say the bus sat just right before you went down one outer notch. But right now the camber angle of the drum/wheel is close to correct. I would bet if you put the right tires on there it will be back to sitting right and will have correct camber.

What diameter is a correct bus tire? 27" or so? What diameter are the beetle tires? 24" or so? With a correct tire installed, you potentially gain 1 1/2" of ride height in the rear without changing the camber.

As far as correcting toe in, that may be more involved. Is there any way to mod that front mount adapter to get things to slide forward a little? the only other option I see is to ovalize the holes in the spring plate to move the rear axles back a bit, if that is what is needed to get the toe in angle correct.
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[Bruce Amacker]

[earlywesty]

[earlywesty]

[Fredrok]

I just went through this. Here's a handy chart that worked great for me.

http://www.volksworld.com/tech-guides/technical-information/vw-rear-suspension-adjustment-chart-9673

[busdaddy]

[mandraks]

you might want to measure your ride hight, your bus is probably riding higher than stock. be sure to measure with bus tire, not with beetle tires.
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[tferr]

yeah Eric get rid of those beetle tires.. that's all the problem is
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