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37emeralds
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2013
Posts: 14
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 Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:26 pm Post subject: Leaving ignition on for electric choke. |
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| When my engine warms up and the electric choke is open all the way, it runs perfect. But after parking the bus at a store, when I come back and start driving, it runs like crap because when I left it off, the electric choke closed. I have to drive for a few minutes with a bucking, kicking engine until the electric choke opens up again. My question is, can I leave the ignition on with the engine off while I run in the store for a few minutes? This way, there will be constant power to the electric choke and it will stay open. But will leaving the ignition on risk damaging anything? I have a Bosch blue coil and a pertronix ignition. And if I do risk damaging something this way, will it be ok to run a separate switch to the electric choke for that purpose? This way, I can shut the ignition off and flip the switch to only provide power to the electric choke while I run to, say, a store for a few minutes? This problem gets very annoying especially because the choke closes so fast. All it takes is a stop at a gas station for some fuel and I have to either idle to wait for the choke to open, or drive for a few minutes with an engine that feels like it's running on two cylinders! |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12846
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Leaving ignition on for electric choke. |
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| 37emeralds wrote: |
But will leaving the ignition on risk damaging anything? I have a Bosch blue coil and a Pertronix ignition.
It could burn the Pertronix Ignitor module out.
And if I do risk damaging something this way, will it be ok to run a separate switch to the electric choke for that purpose?
It would be easier to adjust the choke. |
Good Luck
Tcash |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13493
Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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I personally think your symptoms are cause by the choke, but the problem is not.
The choke richened the mixture. Cool. So you're saying you have poor drivability during rich conditions; let's look at that. What kind of induction and distributor do you have? Single carb? Duals? Fuel injection? Distributor model number and vacuum setup? Are we still talking about Volkswagens?? 
How do you set your mixture with your above system? If your baseline mixture is too rich, then the choke system could be pushing you over the pleasant edge. If your mixture was happy, you might notice a little high RPMs as your warm up systems settle in, (different for carb or fuel injection.) on the other hand, if your mixture was too lean, you'd be having the opposite problems.
Robbie
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I know the OP mentioned a "choke" which is inherent to stock carbs, but the FI system has the AAR and CSV that play the role of chokes. That way my reply helps more future readers... Allegedly... 
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52367
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| You sure don't give us much info. As guess I would say you have either a progressive carb on a Type 4 engine or maybe a OEM centermount Solex on a Type 1 engine but with a non functioning heat riser. |
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madmike
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5300
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:36 am Post subject: |
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Just adjust them, adjust when COLD, just so they close very lightly.when u crack the throttle open,,re-tighten screws,,,,, Done
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2011
Posts: 1593
Location: Louisville, ky
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| madmike wrote: |
| Just adjust them, adjust when COLD, just so they close very lightly.when u crack the throttle open,,re-tighten screws,,,,, Done |
X2. I find I need to readjust from summer to winter and back when it warms up again. I need to do that only twice a year, unless we have an stunning warm spell.
Maybe that is why John Muir hated that auto choke so much, a little practice with a manual choke and you hit it right on every time. |
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Leaving ignition on for electric choke. |
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| Tcash wrote: |
| 37emeralds wrote: |
But will leaving the ignition on risk damaging anything? I have a Bosch blue coil and a Pertronix ignition.
It could burn the Pertronix Ignitor module out. |
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and/or the coil AMHIK
Aloha
tp |
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37emeralds
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2013
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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My apologies for not providing enough info.
1970 VW Transporter with a 1600cc engine code AK. Single carb. Solex 30 PICT 2 carb. 009 distributor no vacuum advance. The AK engine came with a vacuum only advance dizzy, so yes, I do have a slight flat spot issue.
I will adjust the choke tomorrow. I am kinda starting to understand why Muir liked the manual choke. |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13493
Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| 37emeralds wrote: |
…009 distributor no vacuum advance… …I do have a slight flat spot issue…
…I am kinda starting to understand why Muir liked the manual choke. |
So rather than go back to the correct distributor, you would rather disable ANOTHER system that the VW engineers designed to give you supreme drivability and efficiency? The choke and fast-idle cam work perfectly with a twice-a-year adjustment if you have all four seasons. If your distributor can passes the vacuum test, I would SERIOUSLY give it a shot before messing with anything else.
Muir was good at getting broken down cars back on the road, but following his advice is a slippery slope to timing be ear and putting a hole in your pistons.
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52367
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| 37emeralds wrote: |
My apologies for not providing enough info.
1970 VW Transporter with a 1600cc engine code AK. Single carb. Solex 30 PICT 2 carb. 009 distributor no vacuum advance. The AK engine came with a vacuum only advance dizzy, so yes, I do have a slight flat spot issue.
I will adjust the choke tomorrow. I am kinda starting to understand why Muir liked the manual choke. |
Check to see that your intake manifold is getting nice and hot, it should be quite hot within minutes of startup. Your intake air preheat stove needs to be working correctly as well.
Set your choke to the lean side if anything. You want it to fully open after a cold start in just 3-5 minutes, if the carb is getting the proper heat then you should not have to reset it seasonally. |
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37emeralds
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2013
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| So rather than go back to the correct distributor, you would rather disable ANOTHER system that the VW engineers designed to give you supreme drivability and efficiency? |
I do realize that I need to go to the stock distributor. And I do agree that the system is properly engineered. But the problem is, it's hard to find a good vacuum advanced only distributor. I do not want aftermarket crap, and if original ones do pop up on thesamba, they are usually in a very poor condition. A good hunt takes patience!
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| Your intake air preheat stove needs to be working correctly as well. |
My preheat stove is not working correctly due to the missing cable that runs from the fan. This is another project on hold till spring. |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13493
Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Forget about the cable- wire your air cleaner in the "warm air intake" setting in the winter and let it take in cold air in the hottest summer months.
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42593
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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what others said and
the choke should not close while you are in a store. When it is adjusted right, it will only take light pressure to open it cold - literally just barely closing by itself. If it dies at a stop sign a minute or two away, you need a tiny bit more pressure. If it takes more than 3 - 4 minutes to warm up that is too much pressure. On automatic choked cars that I have owned they sometimes need a little tiny tweak between the summer and winter to run perfect when starting.
The 1971 had automatic pre-heat setting on the snorkel, so it may have warmed up a bit quicker than the snorkels with the manual setting. That can also affect how it runs.
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37emeralds
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Joined: November 23, 2013
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| a little tiny tweak |
Define a little tiny tweak. The marking on the housing is at about 10 o'clock. The marking on the choke was aligned perfectly. I unscrewed the three screws and moved the making to about 12 o'clock. Took it for a run and it runs fine on cold now |
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42593
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| 37emeralds wrote: |
| Quote: |
| a little tiny tweak |
Define a little tiny tweak. The marking on the housing is at about 10 o'clock. The marking on the choke was aligned perfectly. I unscrewed the three screws and moved the making to about 12 o'clock. Took it for a run and it runs fine on cold now |
If it runs Ok now leave it.
Assuming mixture and idle speed are properly set so it runs well when warmed up, this is the test I use for a carbed engine - Step on the gas part way and release when cold. That will set the choke. Push down about 1/3 the way on the throttle and crank it. It should start almost immediately. Gently rev it a little to make sure all cylinders are firing (do not race a cold engine, especially in low temperatures, or it may damage an oil cooler or toss a rod) You drive off gently. About two minutes later if it is stumbling from being too rich you need less choke. Or, if it is dying when you take your foot off the gas when you come to the first stop sign or light, it needs more choke. A tweak is like moving the line 1/16" to 1/32" at a time until it doesn't do that anymore. It may take several mornings and changes in weather to get it just right. When you are sure it is right for the season, make a scribe line when you find the sweet spot in summer, and another in winter and you can go right back too it next winter/summer. The factory lines on the carb are close but not perfect. If you ever have to change the element due to it burning out, the spot will change a little again so don't make too deep a scribe line that you can't add another or change it.
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 23891
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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The note about running warm air in winter and cold in summer will work in CA, but not in MA. In -10F, you need air cleaner preheat, exhaust preheat, and the choke to be all working and adjusted correctly.
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13493
Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| The note about running warm air in winter and cold in summer will work in CA, but not in MA. In -10F, you need air cleaner preheat, exhaust preheat, and the choke to be all working and adjusted correctly. |
Absolutely! Heck, you need all those things here in San Diego if you want new-car-like drivability. I only brought that up because the OP talked about missing the rare early bay warmup cable.
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42593
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| The note about running warm air in winter and cold in summer will work in CA, but not in MA. In -10F, you need air cleaner preheat, exhaust preheat, and the choke to be all working and adjusted correctly. |
I did not know MA was -10F in summer but I will stand corrected. I thought it was warmer there in summer, and that is why you could fix the preheat in summer position during the summer months.
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37emeralds
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Joined: November 23, 2013
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:36 am Post subject: |
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It seldom gets -10F during winter here!  |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52367
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| One thing that I do to help keep my engine warmer in the winter is to block off one of the pillar vents. This keeps wind from blowing in one vent and out the other cooling the carb and intake manifold in the process. I have thought about building a shield that I could install under the engine as well, kind of like what VW had for the Vanagon Diesels. |
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