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truckersmike
Elder Sambanite
Joined: March 16, 2001
Posts: 2025
Location: Bellingham, WA
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 Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:27 pm Post subject: M-code confusion |
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Got word of an "early 60's bus with 3 crank-out windows on the side" in my small town so I had to stop by and take a look. I pulled up in my 59 panel and sure enough, it was actually a split window with nearly 20 years worth of moss growing on it.
The owner came out and let me take photos of the M-plate and VIN plate but I'm a little confused. According to the code, it's listed as a walk through but it's actually a 1/3-2/3 bench and it's listed as a 'Microbus Deluxe" which I assume means it was a standard at one point (was eventually converted to an American camper).
Here are the numbers
246=June of 1964
425=American spec 081=Walk thru? 114=6 pop outs
UV=Boston 2413=Microbus Deluxe w/ synthetic resin finish 421781=Touquoise/Blue white with Camo green interior
Is this typical?
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59 DD panel. Former Romano's TV delivery bus
67 Westy SO-42 pop-t |
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GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Pictures!
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truckersmike
Elder Sambanite
Joined: March 16, 2001
Posts: 2025
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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No photos of the bus but it's definitely a bench with six side windows. The owner has been harassed over the years to sell her bus so I didn't want to push it too hard.
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59 DD panel. Former Romano's TV delivery bus
67 Westy SO-42 pop-t |
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GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Let's see the photos of the tags then.
If the first set of numbers is "246" it is probably 24 6. Meaning it was built the 24th day of June. Not the model number.
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truckersmike
Elder Sambanite
Joined: March 16, 2001
Posts: 2025
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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59 DD panel. Former Romano's TV delivery bus
67 Westy SO-42 pop-t |
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campingbox 
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000
Posts: 10249
Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Those plates appear to be off a different bus. Usually the mode plates are painted. Screws too. Those rivets on the vin tag don't look quite right either. Maybe compare the number to what's stamped in the engine bay? |
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GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Those plates are from a 1964 Turkis and white 13 window deluxe walk through.
What exactly is synthetic resin finish?
Edit:
Actually, since it doesn't have m code 130, that means those plates came off of a 21 window.
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truckersmike
Elder Sambanite
Joined: March 16, 2001
Posts: 2025
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| campingbox wrote: |
| Those plates appear to be off a different bus. Usually the mode plates are painted. Screws too. Those rivets on the vin tag don't look quite right either. Maybe compare the number to what's stamped in the engine bay? |
That was my fear. Something isn't right with that bus. I'll talk with the owner and see if she will let me come take a look at the bus again. If so, I'll check the VIN in the engine compartment. Maybe this is why she hasn't let it go.
I'm not personally looking to buy the bus but a friend really wants one so I thought I would check it out. I'm good with having two (for now).
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59 DD panel. Former Romano's TV delivery bus
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Mr. OGPaint
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2010
Posts: 842
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Swapping m-code plates could have been to cover up for a lost title or stolen vehicle |
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olliehank47
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2011
Posts: 1198
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| campingbox wrote: |
| Those plates appear to be off a different bus. Usually the mode plates are painted. Screws too. Those rivets on the vin tag don't look quite right either. Maybe compare the number to what's stamped in the engine bay? |
^^Agree^^
As mentioned, both plates indicate a 1964 21 window deluxe with walk-thru seats. The bus itself is a bench seat, 11 window. The only true ID is the stamped VIN in the engine compartment. Check it out and I'll bet it doesn't match, if it's even still there.
This situation is not that uncommon with these old buses, especially since, for quite a while, they were basically "given away" and thought of as junk cars. Many times tags were swapped from a complete rust bucket to a better condition chassis that had no ID. Other times, swaps were to cover a theft. Believe me, there are many buses running around with tags and paperwork that don't match the stamped VIN--most DMVs aren't that careful about matching tag numbers to stamped numbers and don't even know where to look for stamped VINs on these old buses.
Since your quest is still in the curiosity stage, just check out the stamped VIN. If it's not there will never be a way to know the true identity of the bus except to say it's not a 21 window deluxe as described by the tags. If the VIN is there, you can set things right, if you want, as long the VIN isn't in the system as stolen. |
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truckersmike
Elder Sambanite
Joined: March 16, 2001
Posts: 2025
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Here's what I know about the bus so far. According to the current owner, she and her ex-husband bought the bus in 1979 with the camper kit already installed. They traveled up and down the west coast going to many National Parks. They drove the bus until an accident caused some damage to the front beam so that's when they parked it. Years later, they got divorced and the bus ended up with her (I guess there was a fight over it). It's been parked in the same location since '99.
She still hopes to restore it someday but I got a sense that she may let it go to the right person who will love it as much as she does. I doubt she has the means to put any serious money into it (which it needs). Over the years, she's been low balled by many many people so because of that, she's a bit leery which is understandable.
I'm going to stop by again today to check out the VIN and maybe get some photos so we an clear this mystery up. Though I don't want this bus, I'm curious to resolve this. I'm thinking it's a '66.
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truckersmike
Elder Sambanite
Joined: March 16, 2001
Posts: 2025
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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After work, I stopped by again and the owner was kind enough to let me look at the bus and take photos. I explained to her abut the mystery but she had no insight. She's always known it as a 64 (but says she wouldn't be surprised if it was something else).
Crazy enough, the chassis number matches with no obvious signs of hacking (but that doesn't mean sh*t). Sorry for the bad cell phone photos.
Note late style Emergency Flasher
Why I think it's actually a '66
What saith the experts?
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Kombi
Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2002
Posts: 562
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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24th of June
425 = Seat belts and mounting points
081 = walk through
114 = 6 opening side windows
UV USA, Boston
241 = Cargo doors right, left hand drive, full middle seat
3= Synthetic resin finish
42 turquoise
17 blue white
81 como green
Vin 1321445
Yep read that just as you and the others do - -although something to note...
"241 = Deluxe Bus, 9-seats, Left-hand drive" from http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/id.php
and 081 Unknown - Seen on '54 Barndoor Kombi
---But anyway it's looked at - those tags just could not have been originally for that bus.
If she does sell to your friend be sure that everything is good as far as DMV is concerned before any funds get put into it.
Looks like some good potential if the state deems the vin valid
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olliehank47
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2011
Posts: 1198
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I lost the bet as to the stamped VIN being different  Still, the bus is clearly not a deluxe as indicated by the VIN tag (type 24) and the m-code plate (241).
The engine lid looks to be a 66 because of the latch, but that could be a change. Does the bus have a floor button for the high beam switch? If not, then it could be a 66. Even if the bus is a 64, it's not a walk-thru nor a deluxe so if all the numbers are matching, I'd look for signs of a rear clip or graft of the engine bay tin.
My feeling is that no one would have a problem titling and registering the bus as it sits, but there would still be that nagging doubt as to why the bus itself doesn't match the assigned numbers. |
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71523
Location: Phoenix 602
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olliehank47
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2011
Posts: 1198
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
On the matching numbers... Weird... I don't know what to say here.
It looks like it has a 66-67 style turn signal arm so probably no dipswitch on the floor?
Lightened it up so you can see the arm
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No dipper switch on floor, finger hook engine cover latch, washer jets for windshield, no emergency flasher light in dash, my guess this is a 66, not a 64. Swapped tags are most certain. A very close look at the engine compartment may reveal a graft that includes the stamped VIN. |
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GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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Another nod towards 66- pointed front bumper.
See if it has a 66-67 only front sway bar next time.
Looks like they also nicked the horn button from the 21!
I'd bet the rear vin stamp was grafted in from the 21 along with the plates. Like previously said, M code plates were installed before paint. That's why it's been stripped bare, it wouldn't have matched the new bulkhead and would have been an obvious red flag.
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Last edited by GTV on Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 15225
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:37 am Post subject: |
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Tsssssst...owww!
It's so hot I burned my finger on the mouse. |
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truckersmike
Elder Sambanite
Joined: March 16, 2001
Posts: 2025
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: |
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I agree that this bus has to be a '66 and that whomever did the work was very good at hiding it...until now.
Considering that all the numbers match and there is a title, how much will this effect the value? I would like to let the owner know so if/when it comes time to sell, she will have a good idea about what the bus is worth.
One last question. Can anyone ID this camper? I feel like I"ve seen this style before but I don't know enough about American conversions to guess.
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GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:52 am Post subject: |
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IMO, as long as it can be legally owned and there is zero fear of repossession it won't effect the value too much. But she doesn't need to know that... The VIN on there is probably clear but I'd check it through your MVD first just to be sure. It's a sellers market with splits, what's on the title doesn't matter so much. You can drive and enjoy it just the same.
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