Another 2.1 water pump question

[stevets]

I've searched and read a bunch of posts but nothing addressing my particular issue.

Was kind of dreading doing the water but it's been really easy - even the hidden bottom nut that holds the pump. But the remaining stud on that bottom one will not allow me to remove the pump. It interferes with the bottom cross over pipe ( that goes behind the crank pulley). I've twisted the pipe and wiggled it every way I can imagine. Even tried to gently pry it various ways.

I've removed the top 2 studs but cannot extract the bottom one. I tried locking 2 nuts against each other on the stud to get it out with no luck. Just not enough room! Considered trying to cut a slot in the end of the stud to try use a screw driver but, again, not enough room.

Does the crank pulley have to come off? Any pointers there or other ideas??

[MarkWard]

I always remove that pipe when I do a 2.1 waterpump. Replace the rubber hose at the same time. You can walk it out from behind the pulley. You can leave the cylinder head section connected.

[stevets]

Are you moving it toward the driver or passenger side?

When I go to port ( driver), the flange on the pipe will not clear the pump mating surface. Very little twist available. When i go the other way, same issue - the flange just will not allow the pump to clear.

I need maybe another 3/8 "??

[MarkWard]

I pull it towards the waterpump. There is a flat section behind the pulley. It doesn't pull straight out. There is a twisting pulling action if I recall. You can imagine trying to get the new waterpump installed with that pipe there would be a real task. Can't help much more than that. Maybe there is a you tube video?

[stevets]

It's tantalizingly close.

Just the existence of that pipe configured the way it is makes me wonder if they started over with the wasserboxer design or just started adding parts to an airhead, making it up as they went!

[stevets]

BTW Mark, I bought myself a uni-sync and read everything I could find on tuning Webers. I was starting to feel pretty good about the whole proposition when the first drops of water/coolant hit my glasses.

My van is a 1984 so I think of it as being named Winston ( an old man in a new world) but am considering Sisyphus ( the work is never done).

[hardway]

I leave the pipes and hose together. Remove the nuts from the studs on the right side of the engine. Pull the pipe off of the studs. Rotate the pipe. Wiggle and pull the pipe to the right. This will give you clearance to draw the pump straight back without disturbing the studs.

It can be done without disconnecting the oil cooler hoses but it is hard on them. I generally replace the oil cooler o-ring and hoses with the pump. One of the hoses is NLA. Worse still many vendors supply an incorrect Meyle hose that will not work under the old part number. You have to get it in silicone from Van Cafe.

I have a short cut off piece of 6mm allen wrench. I use 6mm Snap-on box wrench to turn it. It is the only way to deal with the upper allen bolt on the pump side.

[MarkWard]

[tjet]

I seemed to me that the new pump comes with jacking screws to help with removal.

Was there 2 screws or bolts in the box included with the pump?

As for the lower nut, I cant remember how I did that - sorry

[stevets]

Thanks for the inputs.

I managed to get this out by prying the pipe just enough to squeak it by and intend to use a bolt rather than a stud on re-assembly. From the looks of the pipe, I'm not the first to have done so.


I've posted other places about the unknown history of this van but it truly is a mystery machine.

The block has an MV code so that makes it a 2.1 liter...right?

The water pump is for a 1.9 and someone previously pointed out that I have 1.9 hoses.

Clearly someone has done some "stuff" to this van as it's been converted to dual carbs and has a header and fancy rocker assemblies.

I know heads can be swapped between the two sizes. Is the same true for water pumps?

[crazyvwvanman]

There are 2 basic wbx cooling systems.
The 83-85 and the 86-92 setup.
There are 2 water pumps to match the cooling systems.
You need the earlier pump if you still have the earlier cooling system.

While in USA/CA we think in terms of early = 1.9 and later = 2.1 that isn't true elsewhere.
VW built 1.9 wbx T3 vehicles all the way thru 92 so many 1.9 engines came with the later cooling system.
Starting in the summer of 1985 (86 models) all wbx got the later cooling system, 1.9 and 2.1 engines.

Mark

[stevets]

Mine is weird because, the way I read it, it's backward from what you say. I have an MV code motor ( 2.1 or post 1985) with a 1.9 cooling system in a 1984 van.

[crazyvwvanman]

The water pump is part of the cooling system. If you have the early cooling system you need the early pump. It's that simple.


Lots of vans have had a motor put in from a newer van.
The cooling systems are so different that most people who replace a 1.9 with a 2.1 keep the 1.9 cooling system because the newer engine they bought didn't come with everything needed to also switch cooling systems.

Mark