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1957sportster
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Joined: June 19, 2011
Posts: 1
Location: Little Rock, AR
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 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:41 am Post subject: 1963 Ragtop, factory or not? |
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Is there a way from the VIN to tell if a 1963 Ragtop is factory (short of sending the VIN to factory) or a roof graft? Don't want to pull headliner loose and it seems if welds are done properly would be hard to tell. It's not local but believe the current owner is being square with me but he can't know what happened 20 years ago.
Thanks, Mike |
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Bub
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Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 1304
Location: Central Washington
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 9:22 am Post subject: Re: 1963 Ragtop, factory or not? |
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If it's done right you can't tell usually; without pulling the headliner down in the right spot. And even then..
If it's a 63' bug and the ragtop has the 63' only parts (plastic rails at the back and flat handle) I'd say that's good enough.
Assume it's correct unless you have a reason not to. And 20 years ago good ragtops were still easy to find in the $5k range, the body work was harder to do so there weren;'t close to as many roof swaps happening. So if it was there 20 years ago I'd say odds are it's stock.
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Erik G
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:21 am Post subject: Re: 1963 Ragtop, factory or not? |
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If the vin tag up front is still present, it should designate the model number. For example, 117 on the tag would indicate a LHD sunroof deluxe. See if you can get a really good pic of that front vin tag
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harrymarlin
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Joined: June 07, 2018
Posts: 785
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: 1963 Ragtop, factory or not? |
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| Erik G wrote: |
| If the vin tag up front is still present, it should designate the model number. For example, 117 on the tag would indicate a LHD sunroof deluxe. See if you can get a really good pic of that front vin tag |
Hmmm... I don't believe that is true. 117 would suggest that is a 1967 Beetle Sedan (11 Beetle Sedan, and 7 from 1967). In 1970, they added a "2" in the fourth number to indicate it was in the second decade.
However, none of that held until 1965. In 1963, the VIN would have started with a "5".
You can only tell it was a sunroof from the factory by going to the birth certificate.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/bugchassisdating.php
EDIT: Thinking about it further - there may have been other parts of the VIN plate that show this, but looking through the gallery at pre-65 Beetles, it appears as though even those other places don't differentiate between ragtops and hardtops. I'm still thinking the only way to tell what it was originally is to get the birth certificate.
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67ctbug
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Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3670
Location: CT
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: 1963 Ragtop, factory or not? |
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Harry, 117 would be the model number, not the chassis number. They are in different spots on the tag. Also, Bub, '63 also uses solid one piece aluminum ragtop rails starting in April I believe. My car has them and you can find it in progressive refinements.
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harrymarlin
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Joined: June 07, 2018
Posts: 785
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: 1963 Ragtop, factory or not? |
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| 67ctbug wrote: |
| Harry, 117 would be the model number, not the chassis number. They are in different spots on the tag. Also, Bub, '63 also uses solid one piece aluminum ragtop rails starting in April I believe. My car has them and you can find it in progressive refinements. |
Intersting! Could you show a picture of a ragtop VIN plate? I admit, I couldn't find any with that model number, and I'm interested in seeing what I missed.
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-Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia |
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67ctbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3670
Location: CT
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1963 Ragtop, factory or not? |
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Okay, I'll eat this one. Looking at my ragtop body tag, it does denote type, but only as "11". It seems most body tags are this way except for convertibles which show "15". I'm wondering if there was the intention of stamping the final number at the same time as the chassis number as they all start with the same prefix, but then it wasn't done.
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'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
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| KentPS wrote: |
| ...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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harrymarlin
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Joined: June 07, 2018
Posts: 785
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: 1963 Ragtop, factory or not? |
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I get what the model number should be at https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/modelstype2.php
But I've only seen the two digit model number. I've only seen the full model number on a birth certificate, but I admit my ignorance on these years.
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-Harry
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia |
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Bub
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 1304
Location: Central Washington
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: 1963 Ragtop, factory or not? |
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| 67ctbug wrote: |
| Harry, 117 would be the model number, not the chassis number. They are in different spots on the tag. Also, Bub, '63 also uses solid one piece aluminum ragtop rails starting in April I believe. My car has them and you can find it in progressive refinements. |
Not sure of the exact dates- I've heard April, but both the 63's I've owned had the short plastic rails; one was actually an April 63', and ....honestly can't remember what the 2nd was. But Been told if it has the plastic it's almost guaranteed a 63' (or 62' production sold as 63' in some cases).
Personally not sure why any of it matters unless someone can *prove* one way or the other and only the Archives can do that, and...they have been wrong before too!!
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| Had a girlfriend once who shall we say, nearly arrived at the mere sight of a semaphore in action- easy to please she was... |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11179
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:40 am Post subject: Re: 1963 Ragtop, factory or not? |
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Sunroof body Tag will read Typ 11.. nothing more. If you want to know by the VIN number you will have to buy a birth certificate.
1961 to April 63 were the last years of the short plastic rear sunroof rails.
After that 63-67 used solid metal sunroof rails.
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
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To answer the interchange question, yes the plastic and the metal pieces are interchangeable, as well as the solid one piece rails after 4/1963..
2 fold roof is the key.... All 2 fold sliding rails interchange..
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/glutamodo/vw/ragrunners.jpg
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67ctbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3670
Location: CT
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2023 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: 1963 Ragtop, factory or not? |
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Is that from Progressive refinements? My '63 is an April car with the one piece rails, but my chassis number falls earlier.
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'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
| ...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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hitest
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10326
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: 1963 Ragtop, factory or not? |
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There's some conflicting info in here. All the answers of what equipment is correct for the year- go to Grumpy's Metal and bone up. vwsunroofs.com
'63 IS however the ONLY year on US-bound deluxe beetles that had a Folding handle. Sure, on could be added, but MOST grafts are from different year cars and the tell in addition to the rails is the handle.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
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