Horn sounds hard left - and I KNOW how this is supposed to work

[andk5591]

Quit for the day - tired of banging my head against the wall. Now to preface - I understand how it works, how its supposed to work and how to usually correct this type of problem. BUT I can't figure this one out.

First this is on a new buggy build - reason its in this catagory is that the horn/turn signal/dimmer circuits are like a 66-67. Using aftermarket VW turn signal switch with dimmer on the stalk. Everything works as its supposed to, BUT hard left turn (hard against the stop) the horn sounds.

The outer column is totally isolated from body ground except for the negative connection to the horn itself.

Verified that nothing is shorting at the coupler - have seen that before. I have disconnected the inner column wire at both ends. The inner column is not contacting the outer column BUT here is the weird thing - I put my ohm meter between the outer column and ground and it shows a short when I turn left hard. The only thing I can think of at this point is that I am somehow getting a short through the TS switch - But that still doesnt make sense to me. My test tomorrow will be remove the TS switch and see what happens.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[kreemoweet]

Consider the possibility that it's the rubber coupling between the steering column and st. box. Some of those (even Genuine VW) are made with insufficient electrical resistance
and they will cause the horn to blow when it's not supposed to. Exerting pressure on the coupling will decrease resistance further, and that's usually when the problem appears.
This problem has been reported several times with regard to bus couplings, and I assume the same could hold for the similar type I parts.
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[andk5591]

I have been pondering that. Now the assumption was that with the flex it is possible for a bolt head or nut to be too close to a grounded piece and that the pressure would allow contact to be made. I had run into that before. That is not the case here. You are saying that there is conductance through the material itself?

And let me throw something back out - my center wire is disconnected on both ends. The horn button is laying on the seat. The negative from the horn to the outer column is connected. There is no physical contact that I can see betwen the inner and outer columns. BUT I am getting a ground somewhere and I still am going back to it possibly being in the T/S switch some how.....

I have to get back down there and look at this again......I am missing something........
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[andk5591]

Thanks Kreemo - Was having a hard time believing that the coupler would do it - but you at least made me decide to give it a shot and swap it. Fixed..... No other changes made at all.

Zen VW thing - but I figured out what the real reason was. Not sure how I missed this, but the steering coupler should have been replaced anyway. It was just the car telling me to replace it. Makes more sense than any other solution. I mean if this was a high voltage circuit, I could see possible voltage leakage across an insulator. I even measured resistance at about 1/16" distance across the coupler and was seeing like 100K ohms.

Well - thanks again for getting me to swap it - gonna keep that one in my bag of tricks....
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[kreemoweet]

Some rubber formulations contain large amounts of carbon black. Carbon is a conducter - it's what motor brushes are made of.
These couplers also contain some sort of reinforcement fabric/mesh, which itself could be conductive, depending on what it's made of.
It was on the earlybay.com British forum I think where someone was having the same problem, and actually measured the resistance
and showed that it dropped dramatically when the coupler was stressed by twisting it or tightening the bolts down hard.

The column tube and steering column are electrically connected thru the bearing.
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[andk5591]

[jwp67]

I have had a horn blow by turning the wheel because one of the coupling nuts was BARELY touching the gas tank. All it took was turning the nut 1/4 turn to get the corner of the nut away from the edge of the coupler. If you could see in my brain through all the garbage, you could see what I'm trying to explain.

Good luck with the Chantix. I did cold turkey and it has been over a year now. It is the worst thing you will ever do and the best thing you will ever do. Keep at it, you got this!
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21 million of these cars were built,and everyone of them were sold...kinda astounding given how unreliable they are.---johhnypan

[andk5591]

[Bren]

I was struggling with my horn. It started honking intermittently when turning. Could not figure it out. Only change was new steering box and rag joint. I left it unhooked for a year. Finally asked friends to help. We tried everything we could think of.
Then after some searching I found this thread. I installed a OEM rag joint and the horn is fixed. Never would have guessed a rubber steering coupler aka rag joint would conduct a ground like that.
Thanks Guys!
_________________
1967 Beetle, 1971 Bay Window Westy, 1972 Super Beetle, 1970 Drag Beetle, 1976 Porsche 912E

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