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Stonedbeetle
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2014
Posts: 72
Location: Northeast PA
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 Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:27 am Post subject: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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I want to buy a pair of used Type 4 2.0 heads. I have a spare motor that dropped a valve and don't want to put a lot into it to asses the rest of the condition of the engine. I found a pair for a reasonable price, and the seller insists they came of a good running motor. I don't believe he is an air cooled guy however and may not realize a valve has dropped. I am mostly concerned about the left most cylinder. Seems like there is oil build up and the exhaust valve indicates that it may not have been burning fuel.
Whatcha all think? Chance it or run?
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Is it normal that I am still learning about my first bus, and am reading classified ads for other busses? |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17806
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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imho used stock heads are 25-50 bux each depending on the stud situation.
you can't visually check much...they need to be taken apart. really the best you can do is look for sunk valves, or valves that have started to stretch
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42364
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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the color and texture of the aluminum indicates that they have been rebuilt before. Set aside $1000 to $1500 for a set of heads.
These are the cheapest I know of. They are reworked by AVP which is like a modern GEX. They aren't going to last a long time. https://www.busdepot.com/022101061lx . Notice the lead time.
These are about the next best thing. They are 40,000 mile heads.
If someone wants something good for as long as they own the bus get a set of new heads from Len at HAM. About $1500 a set as I recall.
If you can't afford one of these options then park your bus and rent it out as a small bed and breakfast, or maybe a chicken coup - or maybe both.
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"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin
Last edited by SGKent on Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:20 am; edited 2 times in total |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42364
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
imho used stock heads are 25-50 bux each depending on the stud situation.
you can't visually check much...they need to be taken apart. really the best you can do is look for sunk valves, or valves that have started to stretch |
add a 0 to those numbers Don for 2L and then $1000 more to rebuild them unless ine goes with a hand job that last 350 miles.
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"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17806
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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| SGKent wrote: |
add a 0 to those numbers Don for 2L and then $1000 more to rebuild them unless ine goes with a hand job that last 350 miles. |
you mean to tell me you'd pay 250-500 for a pair of used mystery heads? I've sold complete running T4's for 800-1k with all FI parts/harness.
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42364
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
add a 0 to those numbers Don for 2L and then $1000 more to rebuild them unless ine goes with a hand job that last 350 miles. |
you mean to tell me you'd pay 250-500 for a pair of used mystery heads? I've sold complete running T4's for 800-1k with all FI parts/harness. |
Someone so cheap they will only offer $50 for a set of used 2L heads won't pay $70 shipping, and another $900 to have them rebuilt decently. Nor will someone with a set of 2L mystery heads sell them for $50. If that is what you have been selling them for, there should be a line at your door. Typical 2L mystery prices are about $300 a set without rocker arms which are worth money themselves, and those 2L heads turn out to be full of cracks that dive from the ports to the guides. 2L bus heads get REALLY hot. The problem with selling a full motor is shipping. There are only a limited number of buyers within "local" range.
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"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17806
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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he wants a pair of heads to slap on a mystery engine...I get not wanting to spend the $$ on an experiment.
I don't follow the value of T4 stuff, so perhaps i'm low...either way...I wouldn't spend (gamble) real money on mystery parts that are known for exploding.
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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honestcharlie56
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2017
Posts: 87
Location: Houston, Tx
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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If someone is willing to spend 250-500 on type 4 mystery heads....PLEASE PM me.
OP take the heads apart and see what you can see/feel what you can feel.
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1982 Vanagon Westy
1974 Transporter
1971 Tin Top Westy |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 23729
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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50 bucks for both. If seller isnβt even willing to clean them up for inspection, they are like scrap value
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Jeff Geisen
Samba Chaplain
Joined: December 21, 2004
Posts: 1926
Location: N.W. Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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The condition of used heads must be checked just as you would check the condition of a used transaxle. Install and then drive.
Do you feel lucky?
I find sometimes Iβm the dog, sometimes Iβm the fire hydrant.
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I Corinthians 4: 1 thru 5
β63 ragtop - β68 single cab |
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Stonedbeetle
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2014
Posts: 72
Location: Northeast PA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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I am aware of all the new options and what is the "right" way to do it. If I was building a motor, I would go all in. My bus is currently on the road and running just fine. I have another (spare) 2.0 that was redone 18K ago by a known shop in Cali. It dropped a valve before I got it so I want to slap a set of heads on it, and see what it will do on the stand. That is all. I am willing to spend a little money on that experiment, just not a lot.
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Is it normal that I am still learning about my first bus, and am reading classified ads for other busses? |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42364
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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| Stonedbeetle wrote: |
| I am aware of all the new options and what is the "right" way to do it. If I was building a motor, I would go all in. My bus is currently on the road and running just fine. I have another (spare) 2.0 that was redone 18K ago by a known shop in Cali. It dropped a valve before I got it so I want to slap a set of heads on it, and see what it will do on the stand. That is all. I am willing to spend a little money on that experiment, just not a lot. |
Good luck with where you are going with this. Anything you buy as a core head will cost you more in time than you can get back selling the motor as is. If you "dropped a valve" then the piston and probably rod are trash. If you "dropped a seat" then have the heads reworked by someone like Adrian. He's cheap.
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Stonedbeetle
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2014
Posts: 72
Location: Northeast PA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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I am not selling the motor at all. It actually didn't drop a valve,it dropped a seat a seat. We suspect the bottom end of the motor is solid. The rods and pistons all look good. My game plan is to simply re-ring, put heads on it and fire it up. If it posts good compression numbers, end play checks out etc, I will just put in on the shelf as spare. It's not about cheaping out. I am just really trying to keep this as simple as possible.
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Is it normal that I am still learning about my first bus, and am reading classified ads for other busses? |
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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2765
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
imho used stock heads are 25-50 bux each depending on the stud situation.
you can't visually check much...they need to be taken apart. really the best you can do is look for sunk valves, or valves that have started to stretch |
add a 0 to those numbers Don for 2L and then $1000 more to rebuild them unless ine goes with a hand job that last 350 miles. |
A hand job that goes for 350 miles sounds pretty good.... |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42364
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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| Stonedbeetle wrote: |
| I am not selling the motor at all. It actually didn't drop a valve,it dropped a seat a seat. We suspect the bottom end of the motor is solid. The rods and pistons all look good. My game plan is to simply re-ring, put heads on it and fire it up. If it posts good compression numbers, end play checks out etc, I will just put in on the shelf as spare. It's not about cheaping out. I am just really trying to keep this as simple as possible. |
Sorry I misunderstood. Maybe the "Stoned" part gets in the way. Send your heads to Adrian.
| Stonedbeetle wrote: |
| I am aware of all the new options and what is the "right" way to do it. If I was building a motor, I would go all in. My bus is currently on the road and running just fine. I have another (spare) 2.0 that was redone 18K ago by a known shop in Cali. It dropped a valve before I got it so I want to slap a set of heads on it, and see what it will do on the stand. That is all. I am willing to spend a little money on that experiment, just not a lot. |
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my59
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2003
Posts: 3963
Location: connecting the dots
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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| orwell84 wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
imho used stock heads are 25-50 bux each depending on the stud situation.
you can't visually check much...they need to be taken apart. really the best you can do is look for sunk valves, or valves that have started to stretch |
add a 0 to those numbers Don for 2L and then $1000 more to rebuild them unless ine goes with a hand job that last 350 miles. |
A hand job that goes for 350 miles sounds pretty good.... |
In a bus going 65, that like 5 hours. Must be using the right weight lube.
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my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
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Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 23729
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
add a 0 to those numbers Don for 2L and then $1000 more to rebuild them unless ine goes with a hand job that last 350 miles. |
you mean to tell me you'd pay 250-500 for a pair of used mystery heads? I've sold complete running T4's for 800-1k with all FI parts/harness. |
Iβd definitely pay 350 for the above referenced 350 mile lasting activity
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Mispeld
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2018
Posts: 364
Location: Jacksonville - Coastal NC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Assessing condition of used Type 4 heads |
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Mystery head is a gamble.
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Tom
1977 Westy. 2.0 Fuel Injected. |
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