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ekacpuc
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2010
Posts: 1414
Location: ketchikan alaska
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 Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 10:05 pm Post subject: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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As soon as photobucket works I'll post a pic.
A brown wire melted and now the turn signals don't work. The indicator light on speedometer turns on but doesn't flash (bulb doesn't do anything though) when I flip the turn signal switch. It was working before the wire melted..
Replaced flasher and switch.
The brown wire is attached to speedometer on the passenger side then splits off. One end goes to a group of spades near a brace and then splits off and heads towards the passenger side and just ends. I can't find where it attached to or I would run a new wire.
1972 standard beetle |
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johneliot
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 2194
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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Melted wire means you had a short. The brown wire you're describing is the long daisy chain ground wire. Best to check the classifieds or a wrecked bug to get another.
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John
There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress.
Mark Twain
69 bug - "The Grey Ghost" |
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ekacpuc
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2010
Posts: 1414
Location: ketchikan alaska
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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| johneliot wrote: |
| Melted wire means you had a short. The brown wire you're describing is the long daisy chain ground wire. Best to check the classifieds or a wrecked bug to get another. |
Where does it go? It's long enough to go somewhere near the glove box.. I realize I had a short. I think I found it. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 25988
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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| ekacpuc wrote: |
| As soon as photobucket works I'll post a pic. |
Post it on thesamba instead please. It will disappear all too soon on Photolostbucket.
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johneliot
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 2194
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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You need to go to the tech section and look up the wireing diagram for your year. That ground wire is one wire that has about 7 wires coming off of it for grounding purposes.
_________________
John
There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress.
Mark Twain
69 bug - "The Grey Ghost" |
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runamoc 
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 6166
Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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| johneliot wrote: |
| Melted wire means you had a short. The brown wire you're describing is the long daisy chain ground wire. Best to check the classifieds or a wrecked bug to get another. |
It could also mean the ground for a higher amperage load lost it's ground and used the brown ground wire that burnt up as a source of ground. Fuses are to protect the wires. Even if it was on a circuit without a fuse, positive voltage wires would be burnt also.
A 'real life' example, a PO changed the transaxle in his car and didn't connect the ground strap. When he jump started the car the brown ground wire connected to the generator 'glowed' for about 2 seconds before burning in two and messing up the whole rear wiring harness.
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Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 45 yrs - Plan B: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs- '80 Rabbit Diesel
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
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vamram
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 8033
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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The brown one that goes down the A pillar by the glove box is for the door dome light switch on the passenger side. Allows the dome light to turn on when the passenger-side door is opened.
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sb001
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Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10458
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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Taking a quick gander at the wiring diagram, my guess it's the ground wire for the fresh air box fan. But without pics or a clearer description it's hard to say.
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vamram
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Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 8033
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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It's a standard so it doesn't have an airbox fan. It's the ground for the passenger side dome light switch.
_________________
"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...languishing since 2022.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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ekacpuc
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2010
Posts: 1414
Location: ketchikan alaska
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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On a spade connector with other Wires that attach to body then forks off. One goes to speedometer (connected to another wire on a spade connector) then other part of fork goes towards passenger side.
It affected my turn signals. They no longer work. That's the only bad wire |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 25988
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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A little too close up of an image to tell where that brown wire goes to. Do replace it and see if that helps. Reason it failed is most likely due to being tangled thru the fuse box, so the insulation wore thru on the sharp edges in there and shorted out. The wiring needs to be cleaned/tidied up in your VW and stop using those cheap terminals with the plastic collars around them. Use brass terminals and either solder and heat shrink them onto the wire or get the proper crimping tool for about $40.00.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=338938&highlight=brass+connector+crimper
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runamoc
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 6166
Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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| cheap terminals with the plastic collars around them. Use brass terminals |
Just because they have plastic collars doesn't make them cheap. Doesn't brass tarnish? Of course, it does. That's why they are black in color and causing higher resistance in the connections they made 40+ years ago. Not to mention thin. When it comes to electricity, thicker is better, Speaking of electricity, the Germans are hands down the best when it comes to mechanical stuff but when it comes to electricity, they aren't the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree. One look at how they did the horn and starter solenoid circuits will attest to this fact. 
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Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 45 yrs - Plan B: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
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VW Wiring = It's just wires |
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 25988
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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| runamoc wrote: |
Just because they have plastic collars doesn't make them cheap. Doesn't brass tarnish? Of course, it does. That's why they are black in color and causing higher resistance in the |
Yes it does make them cheap. Quite a few of those cheap terminal are made of aluminum, and will not solder up to the wire! Plus simply using pliers to crimp those on results in a mechanical connection that is not air tight. So the corrosion gets into that connection and causes a voltage drop.
Sure the brass terminals turn black and every ten or so years you have to go thru the wiring to clean, tighten, and dielectric grease it all up, BUT having tear off each terminal from each wire to get out the corrosion there is nuts. So akin to shooting yourself in the foot....
The brass might be thinner, but are just fine for the wattage going through the stock wiring. If not they would get hot to the touch even when perfectly clean of corrosion.
Added fun is the pliers crimping the wire in the terminal just ovals the hole so it only clamps in two sides on the wire. Wire can flatten out a little more later and become loose.
Met a fellow bus owner years ago who was having a problem with the engine dieing at random. Saw one of those cheap terminals on the coil bringing voltage from the ignition switch. Lightly tugged on the wire and it fell out of the terminal.
Personally we are happy to save a buck now and then when possible, but not at the cost of the quality of something that will long out last other junk and work properly!
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runamoc
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 6166
Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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| Quote: |
| will not solder up to the wire! Plus simply using pliers to crimp those on results in a mechanical connection that is not air tight. |
I can see it will be a futile effort to explain the many misconceptions you have on this whole subject. BUT I will say, those thin brass connectors can't compete with Thomas & Betts crimped connectors, crimped with a crimping tool made for that purpose and not crimped with pliers your buddies seem to use for their projects.
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Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 45 yrs - Plan B: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs- '80 Rabbit Diesel
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 25988
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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| runamoc wrote: |
I can see it will be a futile effort to explain the many misconceptions you have on this whole subject. |
Well over 30 years experience with the stock terminals and using the crimper to install new ones for for the about 15 years they have been trouble free.
Great to hear that Thomas & Betts crimped connectors are out there, but have never seen any FLAPS selling those or at any auto swap meets.
Please feel free to post info (or better yet start a thread about them) on that brand of terminals and crimper, but without any B&T logo on the terminal in the OP image is almost certainly going to be cheap junk.
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David_nc_72std
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Joined: August 22, 2015
Posts: 839
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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Biggest problem with any of the connectors is not using the correct tool, or not knowing how to use the tool properly.
As for the original question about the burnt brown wire, it could be the ground wire to the emergency flasher switch, that is located adjacent to the glove box and also part of the turn signal circuitry. Something odd in the photo is that both brown wires that come off the ground terminal are burnt, almost looks like the ground connection was lost at the common terminal. |
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runamoc
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 6166
Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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| Quote: |
| Well over 30 years experience |
Unimpressed.  I've driven the same Bug for 36 years, counting this year, and it's had T&B connectors on it since then from where I fixed the high resistance brass connectors on the grounds and power connections. I first started working on Bugs 44 years ago this year, also. The first thing I put on that '63 to 'customize' it was a Zoom tube. Loved that car, but I digress. Did you know a cheap aluminum crimp connector conducts electricity better than those brass things you think so highly of..
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Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 45 yrs - Plan B: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs- '80 Rabbit Diesel
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 25988
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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| runamoc wrote: |
Unimpressed. |
Well, was not going for impressed, just stating that we have that much experience.
Problem with the cheap aluminum is they do not hold the clamping force to connect as well. If T&B have ones that hold up that is great! Do you have a particular Internet link to the ones you use??
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ekacpuc
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2010
Posts: 1414
Location: ketchikan alaska
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 5:45 am Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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| David_nc_72std wrote: |
Biggest problem with any of the connectors is not using the correct tool, or not knowing how to use the tool properly.
As for the original question about the burnt brown wire, it could be the ground wire to the emergency flasher switch, that is located adjacent to the glove box and also part of the turn signal circuitry. Something odd in the photo is that both brown wires that come off the ground terminal are burnt, almost looks like the ground connection was lost at the common terminal. |
Where is the common ground terminal?
That sounds correct. I remember pulling it off something but couldn't remember what. I will look into the emergency flasher wiring.
i didn't make the black wire connector. I live in a city with constant rain so I use the connectors with heat shrink and a wire crimper. I'm still finding stuff like that little black wire in the pic from a PO.
I'd really like to just get a new harness and rewire the whole car but am not in a situation where I can afford it yet. |
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 25988
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Melted brown wire, turn signals died |
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As long as the main wiring harness is in good shape you can fix terminal ends and put new pieces of wire where the harness has been hacked up or damaged. That way save yourself a few bucks and get a few tools for the repairs you will need anyway.
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