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vwuguy
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2005
Posts: 1061
Location: southwestern ontario, on and netherlands and bc
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 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:07 pm Post subject: How to install the original 38 amp generator on a vw bus |
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Hi,
I could use some help. The original 38amp generator for a 1970 bus seems to be a little longer the 30 amp generator that was on the 1600 I am fixing.
I am trying to make this back to stock. Do I need special engine tin for the 1600 single port motor to fit the vw 38amp generator or is it ok to mount it and let it run on an angle?
Is there any other parts differences that you may know about any help is appreciated.
thanks erb
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Abscate 
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 23991
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38amp generator on a vw bus |
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The pulley for the 38 Amp generator is different and let's the belt run straight.
Running the belt at an angle is not good and it will start popping off in my experience.
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13514
Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:10 am Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38amp generator on a vw bus |
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You'll need:
- 38a generator
- 38a backing plate set (three pieces. middle ring is identical to 30a set)
- special 38a fan hub
- special generator pulley with cast iron front piece
- extra fan shims, possibly small and large
- belt that is 5mm shorter (most people ignore this part and don't have any issues.)
You'll also want a 38a regulator to utilize the extra capacity. A 30a regulator will work fine, and is safe, but it limits your output to 30a. Do not use a 38a regulator with a 30a generator though.
Some people say the 38a setups are hard to find. I respectfully disagree.
Robbie
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Brian
Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:19 am Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38amp generator on a vw bus |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| Some people say the 38a setups are hard to find. I respectfully disagree. |
The bits are harder to find than the generator. But they're out there.
(Not including the one on my engine)
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kreemoweet
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Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 4102
Location: Seattle, WA
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ewdb92
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2010
Posts: 505
Location: Plymouth, NH
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38amp generator on a vw bus |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
You'll need:
- 38a generator
- 38a backing plate set (three pieces. middle ring is identical to 30a set)
- special 38a fan hub
- special generator pulley with cast iron front piece
- extra fan shims, possibly small and large
- belt that is 5mm shorter (most people ignore this part and don't have any issues.)
You'll also want a 38a regulator to utilize the extra capacity. A 30a regulator will work fine, and is safe, but it limits your output to 30a. Do not use a 38a regulator with a 30a generator though.
Some people say the 38a setups are hard to find. I respectfully disagree.
Robbie |
While I agree the setups are out there, they are not always easy to get when the bus dies on the road. When my 71 generator crapped a bearing in PA, I called around looking for a 38 amp gen and no one had them, even tried Bus Depot. In talking with BD about my options, I thought putting in a 30 amp gen would at least get us back on the road and home. Well, 3 of the local FLAPS had the 30 amp gen (turns out the PO had already put in a 30 amp and I just hadn't realized it, so we were good on all the little parts and volt reg). I've thought about converting back to a 38 gen, but am not convinced I'd have the same quick success in a roadside emergency.
On the other hand, in 25 years of bussing, this was the only gen to die on me.
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71 Camper
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13514
Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38amp generator on a vw bus |
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| ewdb92 wrote: |
When my 71 generator crapped a bearing in PA, I called around looking for a 38 amp gen and no one had them...
On the other hand, in 25 years of bussing, this was the only gen to die on me. |
This is one of the few spare parts I always have with me:
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Generator-and-Alternator-Bearing-6-12V-p/111-903-221a.htm
Of course, knowing how to change one in situ without lifting the fan shroud is a key component too.
Gotta have respect for any $9 part that lives its life at 7,000 rpm....
Robbie
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ewdb92
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2010
Posts: 505
Location: Plymouth, NH
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38amp generator on a vw bus |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
Gotta have respect for any $9 part that lives its life at 7,000 rpm....
Robbie |
Absolutely, gotta be a hard life.
| asiab3 wrote: |
Of course, knowing how to change one in situ without lifting the fan shroud is a key component too.
Robbie |
Isn't the best place to learn on the side of road? 
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71 Camper
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42691
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38amp generator on a vw bus |
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| Quote: |
| Isn't the best place to learn on the side of road? Razz |
no. Only Colin and Robbie get a high on doing that. 
One of the 50+ reasons you know you own a VW bus..
| Quote: |
| 42 - You know you are a VW bus driver when feet protruding from the under the rear of a vehicle seem normal. |
.
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12846
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:45 pm Post subject: 38 amp generator install |
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To link to this thread
| Code: |
| [url=http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8116434#8116434]38 amp generator install[/url] |
Thanks to all that posted information.
This is the assembled components needed to install a 38A generator.
--38A generator 211 903 031 D 13mm longer. Bosch short number GR17.
38A generator on Left is 13mm longer than 30A generator on Right.
--38A generator Pulley 211 903 109 cast iron.
Left: 30A pulley is pressed metal. Right: 38A pulley front half is cast iron and has more of an offset.
Note: Pulley back half has a balancing weight and the profile is different.
Note: Cast iron, hub and pulley are one piece.
Note: The pulley is cast iron and brakes easily. So when using a screw driver in the notch, the pulley will break if you apply too much force. If needed use an air gun to zip the nut off while holding the pulleys in a gloved hand.
What ever you do. Do not be prying to hard on the sides of the pulley with screw drivers. Spray it with some rust penetrant and apply heat to get it off.
--Fan
(Non-Doghouse Style) 131 119 031 32mm wide.
(Doghouse Style) 113 119 031B 35mm wide. Can be up to 37mm.
--38A generator Fan Cover
outer 211 119 259
inner 211 119 261
Note: the fan covers are not flat but dished (dimpled, bowled) to accept the 13mm added length of the 38A generator. The dimple faces the fan shroud, the front of the vehicle.
Note: wrong 30A fan hub installed.
Note: 38A fan cover. The cover is concave (bowl) shaped. To help allow for the added 13mm length of the 38 amp generator.
Note: 30A fan cover. The cover is convex (hat) shaped.
--38A generator pulley Special Washer (Spacer) 211 903 183 11mm wide.
--38A generator Fan Hub 211 119 123
Note: 38A Hub looks like a Top hat, not offset between the hub and Gen.
--Hub Carrier Plate 111 119 131
--Shim 0.5 mm 111 903 131 A
--38A generator Regulator 211 903 803 E
Note: 30A and 38A regulators look the same. So look for the 38A stamping near the mounting hole.
--Test Data
Cut in speed 1600 rpm
Cut in Volts 12.5-13.2v
Reverse Current 5-11.5A
Regulating Volts (no load) 13.5-14.2v
Regulating Volts (under load) 12.9-13.6v
Load current 35A
Workshop Bulletin No. E of 13 August 1968
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/EarlyBay-9.html
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/EarlyBay-1.html
Last edited by Tcash on Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:31 pm; edited 9 times in total |
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Brian
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Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38 amp generator on a vw bus |
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Wider fan?
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12846
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38 amp generator on a vw bus |
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Edited
Thank you Brian
Tcash |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13514
Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38 amp generator on a vw bus |
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| Tcash wrote: |
Edited
Thank you Brian
Tcash |
The fan needs to match the fan shroud, not the generator. The doghouse shroud gets the wider fan, regardless of charging equipment. Though I don't know if the non-doghouse fan shroud could work with the smaller fan and offset backing plates… (I also don't know why anyone on earth would build an engine these days without the doghouse cooling system, save for the 100-point trailer queen restorations…)
Robbie
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12846
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38 amp generator on a vw bus |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
| Tcash wrote: |
Edited
Thank you Brian
Tcash |
The fan needs to match the fan shroud, not the generator. The doghouse shroud gets the wider fan, regardless of charging equipment. Though I don't know if the non-doghouse fan shroud could work with the smaller fan and offset backing plates… (I also don't know why anyone on earth would build an engine these days without the doghouse cooling system, save for the 100-point trailer queen restorations…)
Robbie |
Good point. Edited
Thank you Robbie
Tcash
Though I don't know if the non-doghouse fan shroud could work with the smaller fan and offset backing plates…
That is the way they where Aug68-70. The offset in the backing plates is countered by no offset in the fan hub. |
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klcarrie
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Joined: March 28, 2012
Posts: 295
Location: 'berta!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38 amp generator on a vw bus |
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Timely article.
I too am assembling the peripherals for a stock engine for my 71 camper and need a cast Iron pulley for the GR 17 Generator.
Any of you fine lot have access to a correct spare pulley... that's the only part I'm missing, else I have all the generator parts required.
Another question is, do the new solid-state Voltage regulator (see link below) limit the total amperage in the same way that putting a 30 amp regulator on a 38 amp generator? or is the full amperage still available to the bus system?
Thanks,
Kevin
Edmonton, AB.
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Danwvw
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Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8895
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:50 am Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38 amp generator on a vw bus |
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| klcarrie wrote: |
Another question is, do the new solid-state Voltage regulator (see link below) limit the total amperage in the same way that putting a 30 amp regulator on a 38 amp generator? or is the full amperage still available to the bus system?
Thanks,
Kevin
Edmonton, AB. |
In order for it to work with the 30 amp generator it would have to limit the current for the 30 amp generator. I can't seem to find any specifications on the Bosch part number 30019 electronic voltage regulator except that it's for use on either generator. Probably current limits at 12 to 15 amps. Mine is a lot easier on the bus generator brushes than the mechanical voltage regulator was.
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klcarrie
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Posts: 295
Location: 'berta!
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38 amp generator on a vw bus |
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Can any of you confirm by sight that the front and back of this pulley below are correct for the GR 17X Generator on which they were found?
The front half of the pulley (attached to generator) looks like it matches the cast pulley (right) below:
My chromed back half looks also to have the same pressing of the back half below:
Anyone see differently?
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12846
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38 amp generator on a vw bus |
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Looks right to me. Make sure you have a total of 10 shims, or no matter how tight you tighten the nut the pulleys will still be loose.
Tcash |
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klcarrie
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Posts: 295
Location: 'berta!
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: How to install the original 38 amp generator on a vw bus |
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Thanks for the heads-up about the shims Tcash.
Next Question:
I have never in the past had success dislodging the front pulley.
again, image for reference
I need to transfer the cast half in the above image my reman-generator below:
.
Anyone have any tips about how to remove the pulley half; tools, etc?
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Tcash
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