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72 Westy - first bus
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

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Vacuum advance cutout, requires the bonus switch on the transmision, not critical for happy driving, more of a smog feature.


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Breather connection for a 411/412, not used on a bus system, cap it.


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Balance tube connector, connects to the tube pictured below.
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That runs across the bellhousing tin and supplys the brake booster too.


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Purge air for the charcoal canister, connects to the nipple on the end with no small nipple.


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Where the other end of the charcoal canister connects.
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Schwing
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

Excellent! Wow I'm impressed.

So that leaves two open vacuum ports on my left side carb (front/fan-side & back/flywheel).
I have an SVDA pertronix flamethrower. My guess is the original setup called for 1 port to retard and the other to advance. If I only have one port coming out of my vac advance which do I connect to and which do I block?
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

Schwing wrote:
I have an SVDA pertronix flamethrower.

You'll be disappointed, start searching for a real VW 021-905-205E to replace it and put a module in that if you feel you must.

For now cap the nipple on the aircleaner side of the carb.

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/VacuumHosesCarb.html
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Schwing
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

Thanks for the intel busdaddy!

You saved me tons of time and eliminated any doubts. The engine is now done aside from headers and exhaust and statically setting timing which I will do when it's in the bus.

What's left--
Weld up access panels in the gas tank area. I made these to get to the upper shock bolts.
Install tank
Starter bushing
Input shaft seal
Throw out bearing
Clean trans up
Install engine!!!!!
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Schwing
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

Finished assembling the engine on March 2nd and spent the next couple of days prepping the bus.

Here she is, in all her glory.
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Installed the gas tank and replaced all breather lines. Filler hose was in great shape.
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Tank cover.
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Also replaced throw out bearing with a good German Sachs after degreasing trans bellhousing. I also cleaned up the engine bay while I could.

The weather got cold and nasty and my neighbor has a nice concrete floor and a pellet stove. We both enjoy drinking beer and playing vw so he let me use his garage. Took a few shots with the bus in my front yard.
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This made way for my Chevy to take the engine over to his garage.
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Thats my ugly mug
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And in!
Amazing we didn't scratch my kids artwork. That meant a lot to me.
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bolted on headers and muffler and called it a night.
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The next day I did wiring, fuel lines, battery connectors. Lots of stuff to re-do in prep for the big start.

It actually didn't start because I had the dist gear in wrong. Feeling defeated I called it a night.

After buying a timing light the next night we got it to run!!!!! It idled dammmn high. I let it run for about 20min alternating RPM from 2k to 3k for breakin. After that it was flooded and wouldn't run again. I'd later discover a faulty fuel pump which flooded the cause and hydrolocked (really petrol locked).
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Schwing
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

Here is the first time it started. The valves are too tight and its idling at about 2600rpm. After this run I decided to remove the fuel pump and inspect. I discovered a slightly torn diaphragm so I had to dump the oil since the engine was flooded. My first clue was fuel dripping from the headers. I hand cranked to push the gas out of the pistons. and left it sit overnight with no plugs.

I replaced the fuel pump with my original pump which was also not rebuilt (a rushed move, looking back). This seemed to resolve the issue but I still had some problems with flooding. I could start the vehicle but if it were to stall it would be really tough to start again. If I pulled a plug, it would be soaking wet. I decided to reset and tackle this with a fresh approach....so I pulled my carbs and I will check everything on the bench. I also purchased a new fuel pump from aircooled.net.
I checked compression and the numbers look great so there was no damage done with the hydrolock. Phew!
Here are my averages:
1st cylinder - 122
2nd cylinder - 119
3rd cylinder - 114
4th cylinder - 123

I'd hope to see higher compression on a new engine, but this was cold and technically its not broken in yet, so I could see these numbers improve.

It ran really smooth.


Link

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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

Congratulations!, looks great so far, none of your "suprises" are really epic and all can be fixed, so far so good!
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Schwing
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Congratulations!, looks great so far, none of your "suprises" are really epic and all can be fixed, so far so good!


Thanks! I could not have done this without the support of this community, Tom Wilson, Robert Bentley, and that Raggamuffin guy on Youtube. He is great!

Next up is to check my float levels and check the health of the needle valves. My carb rebuilder used Walker rebuild kits so I have faith only a few tweaks will be needed and then I can reinstall and attempt Colin's step by step on dial-in.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

If it keeps flooding, I'd look at something going on with the float(s). I had a problem in the notch (similar carbs). The metal spring piece that keeps the float in place has to be in just right, or it will stop the float from being able to float properly, which of course then floods the crap out of that side of the engine. Can't wait to see this one in person.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:28 am    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

Congrats on getting it going!

Your pictures reminded me of a gap in my knowledge..I had forgotten the 72-on Bus transmission no longer floats but has a hard top mount. No more chaining up the trans ( and much easier to install motor)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

What an inspiration this thread has been! Thanks for sharing!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:36 am    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

Applause Applause Applause Dancing warm and fuzzy feeling aside--Great job. My only observation was the early part of the video showed the timing light with a bit of a studder --which cleared up quickly- so-- maybe your having a flamethrower prob. -- Not having one my self- I can't tell you if that system fails like a petronix if turned on and left to its own mortality.-

That motor will propel you down the road for ever- Now go have fun.
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Schwing
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

Guys thanks! I'm not there yet though, but really close.
The timing was skipping a bit because the dist wasn't clamped, but very good eye!

I pulled the carbs and got them on the bench so I could check the needle valves and the float level.
Left carb float was 13.3mm and right carb was 13.4mm so I am happy with that. Bentley spec is 12-14mm so I am good with that. Needle valve is not sticking at all, so that checks out for my mental sanity. Who knows my disassembly could have freed something that wasn't right. I will never know.
And then it occurred to me, I messed with the chokes something fierce when I was fumbling with wiring. DOH, that (coupled with fuel pump) may have been my issue all along.

I lined both chokes up with their respective marks, assuming they need to have tension, not be loose cause you have to rotate them to line them up. Did I do it right?

Here are pics from checking float level and how I did it. I used a Mic to measure top of fluid level to top of bottom half of carb.

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Hey Bill thanks for the heads up on the spring, mine matched the orientatiion in the Bentley diagram, so I think I am ok?
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Needle valve worked great when flipped upside down.
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Here I am adding fuel with the top installed. I stopped adding once it seemed to take no more and backup into the funnel. I then poured out funnel and careful removed fuel line and carb top. Then I mic'd it, pretty easy really.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

Something you need to do that is VERY important is check your fuel pump pressure output. Whether it's a rebuilt original pump or a "new" one. Most of the VW carbs like around 3psi. It's not uncommon to see many "new" pumps put out over 6psi or more. That pressure can overcome the fuel cut off valves in the carbs.

In the bug world, they run Pierburg square top fuel pumps. The rebuild kits for them currently put out 6+ psi because the main diaphragm spring tension is too much.

So, next time you start it, check the fuel pump pressure. You can buy gauges with a "T" for $20-25 dollars if you don't have one.

Colin's site http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com has an excellent write up on adjusting those dual carbs if you haven't seen it.

Congrats on your successful first run of your engine overhaul! As BD said, you just need to work out the minor kinks and then DRIVE IT! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

After 45 years the marks on the choke heaters might mean squat, that bimetal spring changes over time and use. To set the chokes at room temp on the bench turn each one in the direction the choke plate closes until the plate is almost closed (~3/16") gap, you'll have to open the throttle a little to allow them to close freely. Once in use you may have to move them more or less to fine tune the warmup time.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

^^^^Excellent call and thank you for the reminder wcfvw69
Can I get an inline fuel pressure gauge at NAPA or FLAPS? Wondering if the metric fuel line size makes this tricky or do I just say 1/4"?

I'd be tempted to leave it hooked up permanently so I have a roadside check for future fuel issues. Crazy?
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Last edited by Schwing on Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Schwing
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

Ok thanks busdaddy, I will watch how it closes when I position it. Appreciate that.
And yes I plan to follow Colin's write up on tuning these carbs after everything is all connected. Since vac issues can distort that tune I might make a smoke tester.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

This is awesome. I hope to follow in your foot steps in the very near future.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

Awesome job getting closer and closer.
If I may make any suggestion, what really helped me with my dual carb setup was to visually see the numbers rpm's at idle and set timing at 3500rpms per Colin's and others suggested degrees of 28 or so BTDC.
Using a tachometer really made sense of what I thought I was hearing and was the actual numbers.
Cheers, and make sure to have some means of fire surpression for yourself and your beautiful family. To camping!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 72 Westy - first bus Reply with quote

Looks great. Love the artwork on the motor.
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