1980 Brown Vanagon

[SamboSamba22]

I have been keeping my eyes open for whatever may be out there, especially since Arkansas is a cheaper state to live in, it allows for me to be able to treasure finds and buying VW's more of a possibility.
My question today, is whether or not this is a potential gem. I came across this Vanagon, as it is parked around the corner from my girlfriend dad's shop. It is a 1980 Westy, complete, and fairly clean. The underneath is very clean, floors are solid and clean. Has the 2L type 4 fuel injected motor, and it has been worked on (new heads, pistons and liners, rod bearings, new gas tank, fuel pump, new injectors. Tires are fairly nice, pop top too. Interior needs a good cleaning, as the exterior has surface rust under window seals, no evident rusting anywhere that I caught. It is of course, an air cooled Vanagon, and I am looking at it to make a designated camping bus. Guy wants around $6k for it.
What are y'all's take on it, seems pretty solid of a deal, though I do know the air cooled Vanagon's do not have the power of the water cooled ones, I like the fact that its still a more traditional VW. Which reminds me, it is missing the front emblem in the grill.
What's the Vanagon community think of the 80 model? Seems to run well, though I didn't personally drive it, I did hear it run. I dig it, I'm hoping for some insight from those experienced with these models more than myself.
Thanks guys,
Sam

_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.

Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL]

[Vanagon Nut]

There seems to be many ways for a vehicle to rust but that window rust has
me concerned. Was it repainted? I also see rust at end of driver side roof gutter.

The '80 won't have a fresh air fan at dash. Not a deal breaker I guess.

I have no idea what the market is like in your area but 6K *might* be high.

Is that a Westfalia or Riviera/ASI camper interior?

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[MarkWard]

Hello, I believe I can see some paint flecking up in the one picture of the door jam sill. That would indicate a respray at some point at least in that area. There is also a plastic cap above the service fittings on the drivers side I don't recognize. If you are not put off by the rust, I'd say go ahead and get it. If it is near a shop as you describe, I would pay an hour to have it put up on a lift so you can check out the underside carefully. There is always value in a local purchase, often the one you find is very far away and that adds to the cost. Good luck.

The 80 is the only year I believe that had the stamped metal intake vents in the rear. The later models had plastic grill inserts. I like the stamped ones. Reminds me of the earlier busses.

[epowell]

I second what was said about the price being possibly a bit high... but I don't know the market there. Where I am (Czech) for US$6,000 you can get a prestine fully camperized high-top diesel.

[SamboSamba22]

The deal with the Vanagon is that a local shop did diagnostic work on it for a guy here, said it just wouldn't run. Come to find out, the heads had blown, compression was a no go. So, the kid gave the okay to do the work. Shop put in new cylinder heads, pistons and liners, and bearings. After some time had passed, the guy sent a little money to shop because of his debt but the thing was still running rough. So the kid said to figure it out, which led to a tarnished tank and ruined fuel pump, so a new tank was installed along with a new pump and the injectors. The shop is a local VW Audi friendly shop, lots of bugs, ghias in and out. For the most part, the shop owner seems pretty solid.
Well to continue the story, the time passed and the kids debt stayed open, over a years time, and now the shop has ownership of the bus. The machanical debt is $5500, which honestly is more than I'd want to pay for it, but with a fresh up on the motor with the odometer at 70k miles, I feel the value is intact in the bus. As far as the thing being ASI or Westy, I don't know. Also didn't know about no air vents in the dash...
So anyway, the shop owner just wants his cash. I was thinking about offering $4500-$5k cash and letting his worries go.
Wish I would have gotten some more photos, the interior is very clean.
Thanks for the input guys,
Sam
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.

Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL]

[Zeitgeist 13]

My '80 camper van was also made in '79. Its VIN was 25A0008082 (I still have the title). If I'm reading that VIN right, it's a really really early model.

I'd suggest to walk away from that one if the price is above $2500, due to rust around the windows and along the seams. What you see belies what lies below/behind
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE.

[MarkWard]

You can't fault the shop for attempting the money they are out, but you should not have to pay for someone else's poor business decisions. You would also want to be sure the title is clear. Unless the original owner signed the title over, the shop would have had to put a lien on it in order to start the process of securing a new title. Shops do this from time to time, but it is a bit of a process. Just be sure the title is present, matches the VIN. Check the dashboard and the door jam to be sure those numbers match each other as well as the title.

Figure out what you are comfortable paying and make the offer. $4500 seems high. If they say "no thanks", leave your contact info, and walk away. If it sits a couple more months, your offer maybe more appealing. These vans take up a lot of shop space. It is nice when one leaves.

[Vanagon Nut]

I"m trying to recall what I paid for my '81 air cooled. Something like 4K
It had some rust but nothing major and nothing like the rust that one has
at windows. What you see there means
much more under window seals which isn't good.

The fresh air fan I refer to is in the heater box behind dash. The venting system
may well be quite similar to models with the fan. I wouldn't consider a lack
of fan a deal breaker.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Mike Robinson]

Only you can put a price on what you want. So $6000 may just be fine for you.

For me I would be running for the hills, the cheep westy's are the most expensive, and personally I would be scared at $2500.

Sorry, but after 13 years of running a 1982 diesel the money you may need to invest is scary. For $6000 you can get a much better Westy, they are all old now, but the watercooled variety offers you more escape routes if the engine goes, which it will one day. A rebuilt engine is no guarantee of a good engine. I made that mistake.

Mike

[SamboSamba22]

So the 80 year model, especially the early production year of '79 is something to stay clear of? I didn't scrap away or really climb in and inspect what I could of the interior underneath the Windows, but is the rust really looking that bad?? Honestly, compared to the rust on my 74 Westy, it doesn't look bad. Plus for $5-$6k a lot for a motor that's had a top end rebuild? The shop does good work from what is spoken but I do understand that work done is never a guarantee.
What's the logic on this model and situation??
Thanks folks,
Sam
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.

Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL]

[Mike Robinson]

It's not that the air cooled models are bad, for me there are a couple of challenges.

Firstly they are the oldest, which means you will be replacing stuff. Secondly they are aircooled which means under powered and over stressed. Neither necessarily a bad thing, but the engine will eventually fail, they all do and then you have a problem. Just because it has had some engine work done does not guarantee a good engine, as in my other post, as me how I know. Getting the engine in an aircooled vanagon rebuilt is very expensive, and at the end of the process, it is still underpowered etc. With the watercooled westy's you have a lot of options, for engines. You can put a watercooled engine into an aircooled, but it is a lot more work and more money.

The issue I have seen and faced is when these vehicles have a problem, they are old and lots of stuff will need replacing, just a fact. So if you buy the van for $5000, expect to put at least $1000 - $2000 into it to get it reliable and running, it adds up quickly. Then the last thing you want to happen, the engine blows. Another $5000 .... At that point easy into the van for $12,000 and it will still be an under powered rusty old van. Check out what you can get in the classifieds for $12,000.

Go Westy has an article on their website called 'the cheepest westy's are the most expensive'. It is a good article, Go Westy know what they are doing. There are good reasons why they only do 1986 and newer vans. Again you can be happy with an aircooled, 1.9 water cooled, etc lots of people are.

I mean it is all up to you, just I have been there looking at my old van and knowing I have a lot of money into this van and I need to put a new engine into it, or throw it away - a Westy with a blown engine is literally worth nothing. A bit of pain there, just trying to say this is a situation you may want to avoid.


Mike

[pinetreeporsche]

Air cooled means less heat from the heater. Maybe in Little Rock the winter slides by pretty fast, but do at least check the heater system for rusted (out) heater boxes and tubes. Long ago, living in Boston, I put a new main pipe/duct going to the front with a sheet metal vent for home water heaters, sealed well and with pink panther insulation wrapped around and had fair heat But clean-original is best. Heater boxes don't come cheap, either. Any problems producing heat/defrost should take more than $1000 off the top.
In the '70s through the '90s I moved from Splitties (first one a 40-horse) to Bay Windows (last one with a at-home top end swap to 1700 cc-- much better than the stock) to my first air cooled Vanagon, a noticeable improvement. But esp. after moving to an 84, then my current '87, and nowrunning the rebuild on that one out to 2200, I'd say it's your worth your while to drive one (or some) of these more powerful later models before buying. Contact owners in your area by personal message here on the Samba about test driving their vans for a few minutes. OR, if you don't plan to go far to your camping spots, just live with the under-powered '80.

[Vanagon Nut]

I haven'tt read that gowesty article but would suggest that if one does their own work, for the right price, a lower priced westy, vanagon may not be a bad idea. But for sure. Investing in a bus with advanced rust isn't worth it unless
One has skills time space to fix the rust.

My 81 is no priz to look at but I know it really well, have spent a lot of time getting it up to a point I can rely on it and the body isn't too rusty. A big bonus is that I've learned a LOT working on it.

What would gowesty charge for Vanagon Mechanis 101 a 103 ?
JK.

I won't add up receipts for parts on my bus but would suggest that out of that I've gotten a reliable rig that has provided a lot of great trips.

Would 12k initial price have gotten me a "turn key" bus I could've driven to California? Maybe, maybe not. It would've looked nicer though.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Vanagon Nut]

for point of reference for OP, image of my bus not long after I got it.
In 2006 or 2007, prices for Westies might've been lower. I got it for
$3500 or $4000. It drove ok, needed tires, was missing front sway bar, had a
gaping chunk-o-bondo on slider door, and the canvas, well....
fridge worked only on AC but stove worked. ZERO heat in cab.
But. Bus c/w a stack-o-receipts for past work. Very useful.

Neil.

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[SamboSamba22]

Thank you gents for the information, it is validated and much appreciated when folks speak in regards of personal experiences.

I understand that the more modern the model, as in the mid to late 80’s offers the body style I’m after with the modern perks of having a water-cooled motor, in theory, a little less wear and tear due to age differences, with VW having time to work out the kinks of new production year models, such as the 80 I’m looking at.
Though I have learned with buying and selling older model vehicles, is that age isn’t always a true tale of the life the vehicle had throughout its multiple ownerships. Same as with the odometer. I like the fact that the shop has documentation of work done on the motor, it’s nice to know what issues it had before mechanical work was completed, as well as getting to speak with the owner who couldn’t pay the bill on the shop repairs. I also understand that there is no certainty that the vehicle is free of other issues that may not be clearly present at the time.
I do have concern if the exterior rust on the windows is worse than what appears to me when I walked it over. I do know from what I could tell, the interior is fairly nice. The cabinetry is complete, though a little rougher in the back hatch, and the upholstery is in great shape given its age. The body is straight, though I didn’t notice it, someone did mention signs of a respray on the body.
Climbing underneath the van, the frame is very clean and solid, tires are good. I wish I came by a day they didn’t have two cars behind it, I was wanting to drive it to check out the transaxles condition and the steering condition rather than just rely on the shop owner’s word.
So on this 80 model, I’m looking at basically the same weight and power as my 74 Westy (74 w/ dual carbed 1800cc / 2L Fuel injected). I am in no need of “needing” a Vanagon, just locally spotted and having the opportunity of being able to designate one bus for camping without care for getting dirty while my 74 cared for more, to be used closer to home for shows and cruising weekend camp trips, I am still intrigued in working on a deal with the shop.
These things do not exist locally, bugs here have all been chopped up and baja to the full extent of hardly any VW resemblance. Bus/Vanagons are scarce.
Right now, there are a handful of 80-82 Vanagons for sell on the classifieds for $6k-$8k running and driving, in no seeming better shape than this one I can touch and inspect here at home.
What are the issues with these early production Vanagons? What’s different with these air cooled motors that cause them to raise more concern or care than the Bays??
Thanks for the read, and for all the clarification guys,
Sam
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.

Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL]

[Vanagon Nut]

I looked closer at those images. Is that an actual hole in the rain gutter
above passenger side front door? Regardless......

I'd take a pass on this one. There's too much rust. At some point soon someone
is going to have to rebuild the areas where the windows sit. And, given what
looks like a giant crack at windshield, once you go to replace that I bet
you'll find mega rust holes at lip beneath the seal.

Were it me, I'd search further afield and buy even a tin top passenger van.
Put a Z bed in it if need be.

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Wasted youth]

[SamboSamba22]

Wiping a little dust off of this thread, the gentleman at the shop has contacted me again about wanting to sell me this Vanagon. I've been meaning to go drive it and feel the transaxle and engine, as well as inspect the window's rust a bit more. I still believe this is a very solid bus, this is solid all over other than the mention of worse rust than I can spot.
He's after $5500 to recoup shop costs, he's the shop owner and has lists of parts and labor complete the last year. Guy couldn't pay his bill, title is being handled over to shop, so I do have some time to consider options. I'm thinking of really doing some dancing if it drives well and offer around $4500.
Worst comes to worse, I'll be the test dummy and inspect it for a friend who may find interest in it.
FWIW, still cheaper than what they're going for with needs of rebuilds, trannys, etc....
_________________
The Bus Barn Ltd. Co.

Oct. ’67 Double Cab (’68 Crew Cab)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44412.png]Click to view image[/URL]
March '69 Delivery (Panel Bus)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-44414.png]Click to view image[/URL]

[danfromsyr]

coming into a aircooled vanagon from a 74 bay bus you won't notice the lack of top speed.
just stick to the blue roads and your golden.
_________________

[VWinVT]

I bought a 1981 Westy 4 years ago for $7000, shipped from California to Vermont. It had a recently rebuilt type4 like yours. Like others have said, it will need a fair amount of work to update systems, both inside and out to make it solid, safe and roadworthy.
That window rust concerns me. My van had very little visible rust around the seals. When I removed them to address the rust, I found 5times more than what I expected, even a few holes all the way through. So I guess I would expect significant repairs with the window rust. There is hope though! This company that does ship to America, sells all the window channel,replacement steel you will need.

http://www.vwbusshop.de/epages/GuenzlClassicParts.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=Categories

I would try to haggle down that price, using the rust as your bargaining chip...its a lot of work. Good luck!!
_________________
1981 Westfalia with a 2001 Cabrio ABA

Small wheel turns by the firing rod,
Big wheel turns by the grace of God.
Every time that wheel turns 'round,
You're bound to cover just a little more ground.