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Beetle totally refuses to fire. Any ideas?
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MountainBeetle
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:21 am    Post subject: Beetle totally refuses to fire. Any ideas? Reply with quote

The weather reached minus 5 Celsius (below freezing), and I hadn’t reduced my spark plug distance in anticipation of really cold weather. In this sudden cold the revs would drop randomly every minute or so, and when accelerating the Beetle would bog down. It would be pedal-floored but only after a few seconds there was a slow acceleration, like driving through treacle. I was able to quickly tune it so the revs would be higher, then when gunning it along the motorway it was like it had no issues.
Next day I tried to properly tune it and this is where the bigger problems began. Initially it would struggle to maintain an idle, then would backfire a bit, and then like the day prior, it would begin bogging down and I’d have to pull the accelerate lever at the engine to keep it from stalling but again it would take a few seconds to begin to rev up.
Fuel was getting into the engine ok as I can smell it.
Next the sparks became irregular until after maybe the 20th time fiddling with the tuning screws on the carb, it just wasn’t sparking, just the occasional half-hearted spark and now 2 days of efforts have failed to start the engine.
It’s not a starter motor issue as it is trying well. It’s not the battery or voltage as even when attached to a starter pack it can’t get sparked to turn over, just the very occasional splutter that never leads to anything.
I’ve resized the spark plugs to cold now back to regular as the weather is mild again. I’ve replaced the spark plugs, changed in and out a new bunch of spark plug cables, I’ve changed in and out two coils, and checked all the wires. I’ve also changed the distributor cap, rotor head and points (correctly distanced) and no spark or improvement. I’ve sprayed in starter fluid too into the air intake, but to no effect. Any ideas, folks??
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

Around here "turn over" means the starter is rotating the engine, it sounds like what you are lacking is "firing".

All of this altering spark gaps and stuff for cold weather is news to me, it should run the same at +40 as -40, you might have multiple issues and your fiddling may be contributing to them.

The first thing I would do is connect a test light between the primary terminals on the coil, does it light up when you turn on the key?, does it blink on and off when you crank (turn it over)? You may have ignition switch problems.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Around here "turn over" means the starter is rotating the engine, it sounds like what you are lacking is "firing".

All of this altering spark gaps and stuff for cold weather is news to me, it should run the same at +40 as -40, you might have multiple issues and your fiddling may be contributing to them.

The first thing I would do is connect a test light between the primary terminals on the coil, does it light up when you turn on the key?, does it blink on and off when you crank (turn it over)? You may have ignition switch problems.


Because it developed the problem during a sudden cold snap, I looked into it as a possible problem and found this in the manual:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Yep, the plugs are back to normal.
Thank you so much for an idea for me to look into regarding the ignition switch. I’ll give that a look at. Supposing the switch is the issue, what does it take to fix it?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

Although this may be one issue, do you have any idea what caused the sudden bogging down? It just seemed so odd and occurred without warning.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

Sudden problems when cold?, water in the fuel, non functioning manifold preheat and non functioning aircleaner preheat are all prime suspects. Add in some aftermarket Chinese ignition or fuel system parts and things can get really strange.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2024 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

This was pretty much what I was like:

Link

Seems an air leak check could be something to add to my to-do list.
https://itstillruns.com/symptoms-carburetor-air-leak-6902940.html

Link

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2024 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Around here "turn over" means the starter is rotating the engine...

Not when dealing with Mrs. Cusser !!!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2024 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

MountainBeetle wrote:
Seems an air leak check could be something to add to my to-do list.
https://itstillruns.com/symptoms-carburetor-air-leak-6902940.html

Use some spray carb cleaner or starting fluid and spray around junctions between the carb and the heads. Anywhere air could leak into the air-fuel mixture and cause it to go lean. If you spray a spot and it causes the idle rpms to change... you have found a leak. For original Solex carbs a common spot is the bore in the sides of the carb where the throttle shaft passes thru. These holes get worn over time and allow air to flow into the air-fuel mixture at the throttle plate.
The point made in the video that it was better when the air filter was attached makes sense. By restricting the air flow into the top of the carb you are choking off the addition of air and the already lean air-fuel mixture goes slightly rich and the engine runs smoother as the air-fuel mixture is closer to ideal. You can test this by covering the top of the carb opening with your hand to choke off air flow. Block off more and more of the top of the carb and listen to the engine rpms. On an engine with an air leak the idle rpms will go UP as you initially start to choke off the air. On a good working engine, choking off the air flow will be like closing down the throttle plate and the idle rpms should only go down.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2024 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

Check to make sure you are getting 12V at the coil when the ignition is turned on.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

ashman40 wrote:
MountainBeetle wrote:
Seems an air leak check could be something to add to my to-do list.
https://itstillruns.com/symptoms-carburetor-air-leak-6902940.html

Use some spray carb cleaner or starting fluid and spray around junctions between the carb and the heads. Anywhere air could leak into the air-fuel mixture and cause it to go lean. If you spray a spot and it causes the idle rpms to change... you have found a leak. For original Solex carbs a common spot is the bore in the sides of the carb where the throttle shaft passes thru. These holes get worn over time and allow air to flow into the air-fuel mixture at the throttle plate.

Thanks, I’ll give this a shot on Monday when I’m on a day off from work and see what happens. Thank you for the input!
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

heimlich wrote:
Check to make sure you are getting 12V at the coil when the ignition is turned on.


I’m ordering a digital multimeter to give it a go. Thanks!
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

MountainBeetle wrote:
heimlich wrote:
Check to make sure you are getting 12V at the coil when the ignition is turned on.


I’m ordering a digital multimeter to give it a go. Thanks!


That is always the first thing I check. If you don't have 12V minimum you aren't going anywhere after that without it.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

MountainBeetle wrote:
I’m ordering a digital multimeter


Great idea. Great tool for VW diagnosis and for home repair diagnosis (circuits, electric water heater elements, etc.)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

MountainBeetle wrote:
heimlich wrote:
Check to make sure you are getting 12V at the coil when the ignition is turned on.


I’m ordering a digital multimeter to give it a go. Thanks!
A must have. On carbureted bugs with correct wiring and a functioning fuel cut off valve you can hear the click by pulling and tapping the wire with the key on. But it might not be enough voltage to charge the coil.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

Please do edit the title replacing "turn" with "fire" for future searches to help others.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2024 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to turn over. Any ideas? Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
Please do edit the title replacing "turn" with "fire" for future searches to help others.


Have now done so at your suggestion.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2024 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to fire. Any ideas? Reply with quote

This is an example of it not firing

Link


A multimeter check finds the battery is fine, the new coil is fine (3.6 primary winding, 7.44 secondary winding).
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2024 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to fire. Any ideas? Reply with quote

I wanna see a vid of you cranking while a test light is connected between the primary coil terminals.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2024 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to fire. Any ideas? Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
I wanna see a vid of you cranking while a test light is connected between the primary coil terminals.


Sure. Do you have a tutorial video link I can copy?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2024 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Beetle totally refuses to fire. Any ideas? Reply with quote

Regarding flooding being an issue to troubleshoot, do you know what the “white cable” on “coil connector one” means as I have no white cables, as seen on page 59 of the Beetle manual:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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