Aftermarket Axle Nut vs Stock

[neil68]

One of my original 68 Beetle axle nuts has a couple damaged threads, so I thought I would replace it, when I re-assemble the hub. The available replacement is an aftermarket EMPI made in China which appears to be cast. Has anyone had any issues in a performance application - i.e. drag racing? I usually torque to 270 ft lb, rather than the stock 253 ft lb.

After taking the EMPI nut out of the package, I measured it and it has a smaller diameter to the flange...not sure if this is critical. I know VW increased the torque spec from 217 to 253 when they switched to the flanged nut.

Also, there is quite a large bevel inside the flange, and almost no bevel on the stock nut...not sure if that is a potential issue.

Apparently there are forged nuts available now, so I could look for one and keep the EMPI for a stock Beetle. Here's a couple iPhone pics:

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Neil.

Der Kleiner Rennwagens
‘68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 108 mph
Dynojet Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9B_H3eklAo

[anthracitedub]

I think that I would just source a couple of OE axle nuts.

[ALB]

I think taking a chance something that important when you don't know what it's made of or how well it's made (when you bracket race as much as you do) if foolish, Neil. At the very least replace it with a stock quality nut. I didn't know someone made forged ones- would you mind posting the link if you find them? Hope all is well- Al

PS- do you know if you're coming out for the GCVW show this summer?
_________________
On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!!

[Frank Bassman]

Those shiny gold nuts are Junk and all it takes is going a liiiiitle over the torque spec and they give... their best use is throwing them at the next person who cuts you off on the street.

Original all the way.

-Frank

[ALB]

[woodoctr]

And I now remember why I horde German parts.......

[neil68]

Here's the forged axle nut that several suppliers carry: http://www.mooreparts.com/forged-36mm-axle-nut-for-early-vw-brake-drums-and-rotors/

I've also seen mention of chromoly nut, which might be the same. They mostly seem to be out of stock, so I'll look for a good used German original.
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Neil.

Der Kleiner Rennwagens
‘68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 108 mph
Dynojet Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9B_H3eklAo

[jpaull]

Neil,

I have a few of the Empi Axle nuts and they are downright scary. I would not torque those over stock specs at all.

I ordered a few of these Latest Rage brand below and they are way better then the Empi. Notice they are flanged but still maintain the proper height. Those Cheap empi ones don't have the amount of thread contact area needed, and metal quality is a big guess.

These 36mm Heavy duty Forged Chromoly are the best I have seen:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301134057716

_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[Howard 111]

And as usual, Empi comes out as basically junk, and it's always preferable to get original VW. If folks would stop buying the cheap stuff from EMPI, they might make an effort to make better parts.....MAYBE!
_________________
1973 Karmann Ghia
Turbocharged, Fuel Injected
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531270

[79SuperVert]

I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but I was reading this thread to see if someone had actually tested the EMPI product to see if / when it fails. As far as I can see, no one did.

Bashing the product is understandable based on experience with other currently available EMPI products, but I think it would be fairer to actually test the axle nut under controlled conditions (i.e. in a lab) to see if and when it fails.
_________________
Central Jersey VW Society

Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt.

[neil68]

Since there is some history of the EMPI threads letting go at higher torque settings, I'll probably order the forged version, if I can't find good used German axle nuts locally.
_________________
Neil.

Der Kleiner Rennwagens
‘68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 108 mph
Dynojet Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9B_H3eklAo

[ALB]

[Dr OnHolliday]

I have one EMPI axle nut torqued at about 250 ft-lbs. Had it off at least once, and its still fine after 3 years. Whatever that's worth to you.
_________________
1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust

[[email protected]]

I'm with Dr. OnHolliday. The shop I used to work at has sold many of the gold axle nuts without issue. I'm not sure why everyone is concerned with if they will hold up to more than the recommended torque, because it's MORE than the recommended torque. Sure a factory VW nut may go 50-75 more than the stock spec, but if you're looking to go 400+, you need some type of the chromoly nut like from Nexgen.

And for those wanting to spend their money with someone that is promoting/sustaining/expanding the hobby, who are they? We all know how Bugpack is doing. Cb performance comes to mind, but no one other than maybe Cb is expanding product lines as Empi is. Each year their catalog is getting bigger, and bigger with parts that were NLA that are now being produced. The previously mentioned shops suppliers have all sold out of their discontinued Bosch 02086 009 condensers, and have raised prices on other 009 items still available 300+%. Empi is now making specific 009 condensers, and are repopping the standard 03010 caps, and 04033 rotors. He's sold hundreds of the new Empi ignition tune up parts without any issue.

[neil68]

[jpaull]

Glad you found them! Yes thats the part number, you will be much happier with those
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[ArnoudH]

Why not go nuts and order these?:
http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/cshop2/front/shop_main.cgi?func=detail&artnr=24478a

It not only reduces unsprung weight but is made out of titanium(stronger and lighter)and reduces the weight of your wallet in the process

I would search for stockers or go chromoly.

Regards,Arnoud

[neil68]

I actually looked at those CSP titanium axle nuts and you're correct: they would lighten my wallet by $250CDN

I probably need to swap out my heavy Brazilian TRW Varga cast iron rotors first!!
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Neil.

Der Kleiner Rennwagens
‘68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 108 mph
Dynojet Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9B_H3eklAo

[mark tucker]

so..why do you think the empi are cast? I personally have never seen a cast nut. as far as the latest rage....I wouldent use those for a sinker when fishing.thier quality is 4 or 5 steps below bug packs and 5 or 6 below empis my empi axle nuts are doing just fine.

[Glenn]

EMPI.... Seriously?

You already know the answer.

I'm sure good used OE german are easy to find.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

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