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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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 Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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The insulating wrap was simply to retain more heat.
Type 3 heat is better than that on the Type 1. The heater boxes are longer and there are two secondary heater boxes as well, in addition to the mains. In designing the Type 3 VW incorporated lessons from the Type 1 to improve areas which could use improvement, heat being one of those.
VW added two heater thermostats under the back seat to bleed some cool air into the system when required, as without them Type 3 heat is enough to melt interior components.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| Donnie strickland wrote: |
The insulating wrap was simply to retain more heat.
Type 3 heat is better than that on the Type 1. The heater boxes are longer and there are two secondary heater boxes as well, in addition to the mains. In designing the Type 3 VW incorporated lessons from the Type 1 to improve areas which could use improvement, heat being one of those.
VW added two heater thermostats under the back seat to bleed some cool air into the system when required, as without them Type 3 heat is enough to melt interior components. |
I would be interested to see where that is posited in factory literature....that the outer covers are insulators. . I have run them both with and without the outer cover...in VERY cold conditions and there is no noticeable difference in the otherwise excellent heat output.
Meanwhile some things are very clear.....that the two "knee pads" strapped on at the up bend near cylinders 1 and 3....are strictly skids.
That being said......the other items....bettter controls, secondary small exchangers....definately combine to make the type 3 system the very best stock heat aside from having a gas furnace. Ray |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69834
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Donnie strickland wrote: |
The insulating wrap was simply to retain more heat.
Type 3 heat is better than that on the Type 1. The heater boxes are longer and there are two secondary heater boxes as well, in addition to the mains. In designing the Type 3 VW incorporated lessons from the Type 1 to improve areas which could use improvement, heat being one of those.
VW added two heater thermostats under the back seat to bleed some cool air into the system when required, as without them Type 3 heat is enough to melt interior components. |
I would be interested to see where that is posited in factory literature....that the outer covers are insulators. . I have run them both with and without the outer cover...in VERY cold conditions and there is no noticeable difference in the otherwise excellent heat output. |
My early parts book calls them "Insulation - Outer" and "Insulation - Inner" for each heater box.
My later parts book says "No longer available"
77 and 78 from this diagram
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Donnie strickland wrote: |
The insulating wrap was simply to retain more heat.
Type 3 heat is better than that on the Type 1. The heater boxes are longer and there are two secondary heater boxes as well, in addition to the mains. In designing the Type 3 VW incorporated lessons from the Type 1 to improve areas which could use improvement, heat being one of those.
VW added two heater thermostats under the back seat to bleed some cool air into the system when required, as without them Type 3 heat is enough to melt interior components. |
I would be interested to see where that is posited in factory literature....that the outer covers are insulators. . I have run them both with and without the outer cover...in VERY cold conditions and there is no noticeable difference in the otherwise excellent heat output. |
My early parts book calls them "Insulation - Outer" and "Insulation - Inner" for each heater box.
My later parts book says "No longer available"
77 and 78 from this diagram
|
Cool!...I will buy that then. Learn something every day!
The part #s 33 and 34 are the ones that are definitely skid plates.
While they list them as insulators....from what I remember about the construction.....I'm not quite sure they add any extra R value. Ray |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22729
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| jgerock wrote: |
Why all the references to Rhonda? OK - she is a fighter. What does that have to do with Type 3's and this thread? On other forums there is an Off Topic section but the moderator requests the topics be kept to automotive related items.
I understand the logic of putting the rear support bar on the car. I added a Berg engine support to my Beetle and the Porsche uses a similar design to the IRS Type 3.
Another weird Type 3 thing. Why did VW put all those insulated covers and metal shields on the heater boxes and they never did this to any other models? I figure the Bus with upright engine would have used the same thing due to the longer distance to the cabin and exposed heater tubes.
I like the alternator conversion - are there any issues with this?
If keeping the stock generator - are the new voltage regulators any good? The ones for the BMW 2002 are very similar looking and the quality of the new ones (Bosch brand) seems to be sub par. BMW switched from a generator to an alternator about 68 but kept using an external regulator thru the end of 2002 production in 1976.
I looked at the ebay 67 ad. Looks pretty good but I'm not in a position to buy one just yet. |
This isn't like other sites, esp. in the Type 3 area. Type 3 is a pretty close knit community and we like a side order of fun with our serious stuff. For example, when you posted those pics of racecars I *almost* posted "Whew! At least they are just parts cars" because one of our long running "inside jokes" on here is a Fasty only being good for parts. This came about because of a good friend of ours, FASTBACKDON, who is into... guess. 
We josh and kid a lot, and wander off topic more than most, but Everett is a good egg about it and moderates really only where necessary.
If you're going to consider that a "downside" that's your prerogative, but the upside is that you're going to get information and help here on TS that you're not going to get on any... and I repeat... any other German car forum out there. Period. I've been on those other forums and post anything but a question about a basic easily diagnosed issue and it's crickets. You can get all sorts of great info on mods and customs there, just like here, but here is where you are going to get accurate answers on what's stock, what's not, and why. If you want anything close to anal retentive accuracy you ain't gettin' it any place else like here.
Jason aka notchboy who started the thread derail the other night might seem like a poop stirring goofball but he was my introduction to all this online stuff when this was still VW Planet in what? 98,99? I heard about the Planet from someone else so I wandered on looking for a bunch of obscure early Type 3 bits that had been NLA from VW for decades and encountered notchboy who was just as big a Type 3 geek as I was and actually knew his stuff. A couple messages and he hooked me up!
In fact, if you do wind up getting an early car, you're going to want to get in good with the '1500 Club' group (see sticky thread up top) - and guess who started that whole thing? (JASON)
You're going to find a wealth of resources here in Jason, Pedro, Bob, Gizmo, ibjack, Lee Hedges, Mario, BerT3, and on and on and on. The really cool part about it is that while there are conflicts of personality here and I'm sure some of us really don't care for each other all that much, even... if one of us needs a part and the other has it and doesn't need it, this gang is great for putting things aside and stepping up. We really help each other out.
So don't let the jostling side noise bother you. Learn and absorb if you are really wanting to get serious about a Type 3. If you'd rather whine about a little off topic bothering you you're "stepping over dollars to pick up dimes" here and not really all that serious. 
There's gold in these here hills of BS. A lot of good help as well.
And now I'm off my soap box and back to work.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| Tram wrote: |
| jgerock wrote: |
Why all the references to Rhonda? OK - she is a fighter. What does that have to do with Type 3's and this thread? On other forums there is an Off Topic section but the moderator requests the topics be kept to automotive related items.
I understand the logic of putting the rear support bar on the car. I added a Berg engine support to my Beetle and the Porsche uses a similar design to the IRS Type 3.
Another weird Type 3 thing. Why did VW put all those insulated covers and metal shields on the heater boxes and they never did this to any other models? I figure the Bus with upright engine would have used the same thing due to the longer distance to the cabin and exposed heater tubes.
I like the alternator conversion - are there any issues with this?
If keeping the stock generator - are the new voltage regulators any good? The ones for the BMW 2002 are very similar looking and the quality of the new ones (Bosch brand) seems to be sub par. BMW switched from a generator to an alternator about 68 but kept using an external regulator thru the end of 2002 production in 1976.
I looked at the ebay 67 ad. Looks pretty good but I'm not in a position to buy one just yet. |
This isn't like other sites, esp. in the Type 3 area. Type 3 is a pretty close knit community and we like a side order of fun with our serious stuff. For example, when you posted those pics of racecars I *almost* posted "Whew! At least they are just parts cars" because one of our long running "inside jokes" on here is a Fasty only being good for parts. This came about because of a good friend of ours, FASTBACKDON, who is into... guess.
We josh and kid a lot, and wander off topic more than most, but Everett is a good egg about it and moderates really only where necessary.
If you're going to consider that a "downside" that's your prerogative, but the upside is that you're going to get information and help here on TS that you're not going to get on any... and I repeat... any other German car forum out there. Period. I've been on those other forums and post anything but a question about a basic easily diagnosed issue and it's crickets. You can get all sorts of great info on mods and customs there, just like here, but here is where you are going to get accurate answers on what's stock, what's not, and why. If you want anything close to anal retentive accuracy you ain't gettin' it any place else like here.
Jason aka notchboy who started the thread derail the other night might seem like a poop stirring goofball but he was my introduction to all this online stuff when this was still VW Planet in what? 98,99? I heard about the Planet from someone else so I wandered on looking for a bunch of obscure early Type 3 bits that had been NLA from VW for decades and encountered notchboy who was just as big a Type 3 geek as I was and actually knew his stuff. A couple messages and he hooked me up!
In fact, if you do wind up getting an early car, you're going to want to get in good with the '1500 Club' group (see sticky thread up top) - and guess who started that whole thing? (JASON)
You're going to find a wealth of resources here in Jason, Pedro, Bob, Gizmo, ibjack, Lee Hedges, Mario, BerT3, and on and on and on. The really cool part about it is that while there are conflicts of personality here and I'm sure some of us really don't care for each other all that much, even... if one of us needs a part and the other has it and doesn't need it, this gang is great for putting things aside and stepping up. We really help each other out.
So don't let the jostling side noise bother you. Learn and absorb if you are really wanting to get serious about a Type 3. If you'd rather whine about a little off topic bothering you you're "stepping over dollars to pick up dimes" here and not really all that serious.
There's gold in these here hills of BS. A lot of good help as well.
And now I'm off my soap box and back to work. |
X2.....and if I were being anal.... I would object to your avatar. It think it probably looks faaar too much like your real photo to be an "avatar".....
Ray |
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BSQUARE
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2004
Posts: 1876
Location: Feeling, Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Donnie strickland wrote: |
The insulating wrap was simply to retain more heat.
Type 3 heat is better than that on the Type 1. The heater boxes are longer and there are two secondary heater boxes as well, in addition to the mains. In designing the Type 3 VW incorporated lessons from the Type 1 to improve areas which could use improvement, heat being one of those.
VW added two heater thermostats under the back seat to bleed some cool air into the system when required, as without them Type 3 heat is enough to melt interior components. |
I would be interested to see where that is posited in factory literature....that the outer covers are insulators. . I have run them both with and without the outer cover...in VERY cold conditions and there is no noticeable difference in the otherwise excellent heat output. |
My early parts book calls them "Insulation - Outer" and "Insulation - Inner" for each heater box.
My later parts book says "No longer available"
77 and 78 from this diagram
|
Cool!...I will buy that then. Learn something every day!
The part #s 33 and 34 are the ones that are definitely skid plates.
While they list them as insulators....from what I remember about the construction.....I'm not quite sure they add any extra R value. Ray |
They're a multi-layered construction - with woven twine, then a pulp of some sort, wrapped in cloth, then coated grey.
They probably don't add a lot of insulation, as thin as they are; but, it's better insulated than the bare exchangers.
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22729
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| BSQUARE wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Donnie strickland wrote: |
The insulating wrap was simply to retain more heat.
Type 3 heat is better than that on the Type 1. The heater boxes are longer and there are two secondary heater boxes as well, in addition to the mains. In designing the Type 3 VW incorporated lessons from the Type 1 to improve areas which could use improvement, heat being one of those.
VW added two heater thermostats under the back seat to bleed some cool air into the system when required, as without them Type 3 heat is enough to melt interior components. |
I would be interested to see where that is posited in factory literature....that the outer covers are insulators. . I have run them both with and without the outer cover...in VERY cold conditions and there is no noticeable difference in the otherwise excellent heat output. |
My early parts book calls them "Insulation - Outer" and "Insulation - Inner" for each heater box.
My later parts book says "No longer available"
77 and 78 from this diagram
|
Cool!...I will buy that then. Learn something every day!
The part #s 33 and 34 are the ones that are definitely skid plates.
While they list them as insulators....from what I remember about the construction.....I'm not quite sure they add any extra R value. Ray |
They're a multi-layered construction - with woven twine, then a pulp of some sort, wrapped in cloth, then coated grey.
They probably don't add a lot of insulation, as thin as they are; but, it's better insulated than the bare exchangers.
|
On the other hand all R values and other bologna aside... they came on the car so:
a. the engineers put them there for a reason- and since we're not engineers the reason may not make sense to us but no matter, and
b. They belong there. Take them off and pitch them and you just devalued your restoration unless you, too, are going to "customize" it and "slam it on Earlies" cos you simply can't be bothered to do it right. 
Seriously... I have gone through hell to clean and restore these damn things even stocking stainless band clamps for them because it would drive me bat shit crazier than I already am to know they should be there and not have them.
Then again, I'm the type that will restore inside a door because if someone pulls the panel in 20 years I don't want them thinking some hack worked on the car.
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jgerock
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2011
Posts: 50
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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I posted the Fastback pics because I am in the Type 3 forum. if anyone is offended by the BMW pics, I will delete them. IMHO it's nice to see how diverse (or not) folks are.
Moving along...The gray colored insulated wrap reminds me of the wrap VW used for the underseat heater tube (perforated steel) sections of the Type 1. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22729
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| jgerock wrote: |
I posted the Fastback pics because I am in the Type 3 forum. if anyone is offended by the BMW pics, I will delete them. IMHO it's nice to see how diverse (or not) folks are.
Moving along...The gray colored insulated wrap reminds me of the wrap VW used for the underseat heater tube (perforated steel) sections of the Type 1. |
Oh HELL no. We are too busy talking Type 3- and smack- to be "offended". I won't be offended by your Bimmers if you promise not to be offended when I call Type 1s "pregnant rollerskates" and refer to Type 3s as "a VW with all the 'bugs' worked out"...
I will say that overall BMWs are my least favorite German cars but 1600s, 2002s, Bavarias, and 3.0 Coupes are fantastic.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| jgerock wrote: |
I like the alternator conversion - are there any issues with this?
If keeping the stock generator - are the new voltage regulators any good? The ones for the BMW 2002 are very similar looking and the quality of the new ones (Bosch brand) seems to be sub par. |
The alternator conversions aren't totally bolt-on; there's a little jury-rigging to be done, but it's not terribly difficult.
I don't have any experience with the new VR's, but NAPA offers their Echlin brand regulator, which is still old style. Echlin parts are generally of excellent quality. They also offer their Altrom brand electronic regulator, which looks like the Bosch units.
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| jgerock wrote: |
I posted the Fastback pics because I am in the Type 3 forum. if anyone is offended by the BMW pics, I will delete them. IMHO it's nice to see how diverse (or not) folks are.
Moving along...The gray colored insulated wrap reminds me of the wrap VW used for the underseat heater tube (perforated steel) sections of the Type 1. |
No not at all!....unlike "some" forums/members that get bent out of shape at the mention of other vehicle types...even and especially when they are being used to be a point toward a relevent explanation.....I like to see good handiwork no matter where its from.
I had never seen the "guts" of the wrap in question. As I noted....I have used them both with and without the outer shields. Not because I removed it....but because I bought them that way.
Being that it is a woven material with air spaces contained in it....I stand corrected. It WILL have some R value. However....I would bet that it does not have too much as I noted.....uwing the heater boxes without it...at least down to the 5°F I operated in.....had little negative effect. Its a great heater system.
As for leaving something on because engineers put it there..... ....I love engineers. Wouldn't have cars, planes and trains without them. Work with them daily. End up having to correct their mistakes from over and under engineering.....on probably a weekly to bi-weekly basis.....so i never fully believe that something must be included/needed simply because an engineer put it there.
I always give benefit of the doubt though......until reality and physics prove otherwise.
But for a "restoration" as Tram mentioned.....of course it goes back on unless its literally been shown to cause destruction.
Ray |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34023
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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I just installed a new Bosch electronic regulator after my (original?) old-style unit began the clicking that portends death. So far, so good, but it hasn't left the driveway yet for real-world testing.
I am a fan of the same models Tram is... must be an age thing? I prefer to believe it is good taste.
There was an episode of Wheeler Dealers that dealt with a tii. They found an old German mechanic who restores the systems, including the 3-dimensional cam that determines mixture. Any resources on the web that describe this machinist's wet dream? |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Donnie strickland wrote: |
The insulating wrap was simply to retain more heat.
Type 3 heat is better than that on the Type 1. The heater boxes are longer and there are two secondary heater boxes as well, in addition to the mains. In designing the Type 3 VW incorporated lessons from the Type 1 to improve areas which could use improvement, heat being one of those.
VW added two heater thermostats under the back seat to bleed some cool air into the system when required, as without them Type 3 heat is enough to melt interior components. |
I would be interested to see where that is posited in factory literature....that the outer covers are insulators. . I have run them both with and without the outer cover...in VERY cold conditions and there is no noticeable difference in the otherwise excellent heat output.
Meanwhile some things are very clear.....that the two "knee pads" strapped on at the up bend near cylinders 1 and 3....are strictly skids.
That being said......the other items....bettter controls, secondary small exchangers....definately combine to make the type 3 system the very best stock heat aside from having a gas furnace. Ray |
When getting a performance motor built for my Type 1, I was wary of using 1.5" heater boxes because there are no fins....they're really just a j-tube with a heater box skin around it. In doing research, I found some guy either in the Performance forum here or on shoptalkforums that tried wrapping a performance box with Type 3 insulation and found no improvement in heating.
Actually just found it.....W1K1 from this forum suggested using the wrapping and some dude said he tried and it didn't make a difference. No data though:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=80 |
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jgerock
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2011
Posts: 50
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
There was an episode of Wheeler Dealers that dealt with a tii. They found an old German mechanic who restores the systems, including the 3-dimensional cam that determines mixture. Any resources on the web that describe this machinist's wet dream? |
How much do you want to know? There are a handful of people that can still work on and test the KF pump. Look for Gus Pfister in CA as one. Should see a video or two at his place. I had mine rebuilt by another shop but was told there wasn't anything wrong other than leaking gaskets. Once you get the pump and throttle body synchronized properly- the tii goes like hell starting about 2,500 rpm. The injectors squirt into the intake manifold at 500+ Psi. I normally get 27-32 mpg with my 5 speed OD transmission. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22729
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Donnie strickland wrote: |
The insulating wrap was simply to retain more heat.
Type 3 heat is better than that on the Type 1. The heater boxes are longer and there are two secondary heater boxes as well, in addition to the mains. In designing the Type 3 VW incorporated lessons from the Type 1 to improve areas which could use improvement, heat being one of those.
VW added two heater thermostats under the back seat to bleed some cool air into the system when required, as without them Type 3 heat is enough to melt interior components. |
I would be interested to see where that is posited in factory literature....that the outer covers are insulators. . I have run them both with and without the outer cover...in VERY cold conditions and there is no noticeable difference in the otherwise excellent heat output.
Meanwhile some things are very clear.....that the two "knee pads" strapped on at the up bend near cylinders 1 and 3....are strictly skids.
That being said......the other items....bettter controls, secondary small exchangers....definately combine to make the type 3 system the very best stock heat aside from having a gas furnace. Ray |
When getting a performance motor built for my Type 1, I was wary of using 1.5" heater boxes because there are no fins....they're really just a j-tube with a heater box skin around it. In doing research, I found some guy either in the Performance forum here or on shoptalkforums that tried wrapping a performance box with Type 3 insulation and found no improvement in heating.
Actually just found it.....W1K1 from this forum suggested using the wrapping and some dude said he tried and it didn't make a difference. No data though:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=80 |
I think we call them "insulators" because that's what the factory lit says they are. simple as that. As to what they do... well, pretty sure they are asbestos so that tells me it's a heat issue... if not holding heat in then maybe to protect other things from the heat the boxes radiate, or maybe just some additional heat sink. Maybe they keep water from going through a puddle or oil from leaky valve covers off of/ out of the boxes so the driver doesn't get steamed/ smoked out. Maybe they keep the boxes from cooling down too rapidly from as hot as they get and cracking the cast iron parts inside.
Don't know, don't care... if they came on the car they stay on the car.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| Tram wrote: |
| jgerock wrote: |
I posted the Fastback pics because I am in the Type 3 forum. if anyone is offended by the BMW pics, I will delete them. IMHO it's nice to see how diverse (or not) folks are.
Moving along...The gray colored insulated wrap reminds me of the wrap VW used for the underseat heater tube (perforated steel) sections of the Type 1. |
Oh HELL no. We are too busy talking Type 3- and smack- to be "offended". I won't be offended by your Bimmers if you promise not to be offended when I call Type 1s "pregnant rollerskates" and refer to Type 3s as "a VW with all the 'bugs' worked out"...
I will say that overall BMWs are my least favorite German cars but 1600s, 2002s, Bavarias, and 3.0 Coupes are fantastic. |
And.... if you promise to not get offended when I state that type 3s.....would be the absolute top of the ACVW heap.....if they were actually type 4s..... 
Ray |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22729
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| jgerock wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
There was an episode of Wheeler Dealers that dealt with a tii. They found an old German mechanic who restores the systems, including the 3-dimensional cam that determines mixture. Any resources on the web that describe this machinist's wet dream? |
How much do you want to know? There are a handful of people that can still work on and test the KF pump. Look for Gus Pfister in CA as one. Should see a video or two at his place. I had mine rebuilt by another shop but was told there wasn't anything wrong other than leaking gaskets. Once you get the pump and throttle body synchronized properly- the tii goes like hell starting about 2,500 rpm. The injectors squirt into the intake manifold at 500+ Psi. I normally get 27-32 mpg with my 5 speed OD transmission. |
Gus has been around since God was a child.  Good to hear he is still at it.
I've pulled these pumps down and repaired them on Mercedes and Porsche cars and then calibrated them with an exhaust sniffer on the engine in- house. The biggest enemy of these pumps is lack of use and lack of lubrication. Almost all the "dead" pumps I've brought back- including the MB M100 600 "Grosser" and W109 6,3 ones- needed a good disassembly and a few days just soaking in a big vat of Sili Kroil to get the rack and plungers moving again. Then a disassembly, clean, and lube gets things squirting again.
A lot of them have their own oil fill and little dipstick, as well as a little plastic or metal air filter. Can't remember offhand exactly how the BMW ones are set up but as I recall it's a pretty cool and reliable little device that operates on a lot of the same principles.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| Tram wrote: |
I think we call them "insulators" because that's what the factory lit says they are. simple as that. As to what they do... well, pretty sure they are asbestos so that tells me it's a heat issue... if not holding heat in then maybe to protect other things from the heat the boxes radiate, or maybe just some additional heat sink. Maybe they keep water from going through a puddle or oil from leaky valve covers off of/ out of the boxes so the driver doesn't get steamed/ smoked out. Maybe they keep the boxes from cooling down too rapidly from as hot as they get and cracking the cast iron parts inside.
Don't know, don't care... if they came on the car they stay on the car. |
Man, you're pretty active on the forums for a guy who has emails to answer and a Riviera to finish . |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34023
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Best Year Early Squareback opinions wanted |
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| Tram wrote: |
I think we call them "insulators" because that's what the factory lit says they are. simple as that. As to what they do... well, pretty sure they are asbestos so that tells me it's a heat issue... if not holding heat in then maybe to protect other things from the heat the boxes radiate, or maybe just some additional heat sink. Maybe they keep water from going through a puddle or oil from leaky valve covers off of/ out of the boxes so the driver doesn't get steamed/ smoked out. Maybe they keep the boxes from cooling down too rapidly from as hot as they get and cracking the cast iron parts inside.
Don't know, don't care... if they came on the car they stay on the car. |
Russ posted that he had the material tested and it was fiberglas, not asbestos. He said VW stopped using asbestos anywhere after about '68. The only possible exception I am aware of is the little insulation pieces that fit into the Type 1/2 rear tin at the heat riser pipes. That used to be asbestos, according to the VW service manual, but even that might have been changed in later years.
Mine are in pretty good shape, so they stay on (painted to look better), but I think I have seen threads where it was partially delaminated, trapped moisture, and increased rust in that area. |
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