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AircooledHome
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 Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:28 pm Post subject: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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Hello World
I have an issue here. As part of my warranty / Because I have no idea what climates I might find myself in, I am assembling the Thermostat setup on my new 1776 engine for my Bay.
I have all the parts cleaned, tested and installed. I am having an issue where the flaps will not close all the way when the t-stat is in the fully closed position.
Heres the Issue:
Link
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airschooled
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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I can’t watch the video at work, but there is a known issue with T1 flaps not closing all the way if the stack-up of parts is 40+ years old and from multiple engines. If the flaps aren’t closing all the way, you can bend the “hoop” on the right flap to effectively shorten the thermostat rod. Be careful on first startup- you could even check with a heat gun- to make sure that the adjustment allows the flaps to open fully when the thermostat bellows are expanded. The opposite is true if the thermostat is not opening the flaps all the way, but you can also unscrew the thermostat rod two or three tuns to get a few mm of extension of poppet of the rod or just bend the hoop the other way.
I think this was detailed in the late model bug forum last year, but there has to be SOME airflow over the cylinders to heat up the thermostat enough to open. VW had rubber bumpers on the flaps when new to avoid rattling when closed AND to let a little air through for thermostat triggering.
Good luck!
Robbie
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AircooledHome
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
I can’t watch the video at work, but there is a known issue with T1 flaps not closing all the way if the stack-up of parts is 40+ years old and from multiple engines. If the flaps aren’t closing all the way, you can bend the “hoop” on the right flap to effectively shorten the thermostat rod. Be careful on first startup- you could even check with a heat gun- to make sure that the adjustment allows the flaps to open fully when the thermostat bellows are expanded. The opposite is true if the thermostat is not opening the flaps all the way, but you can also unscrew the thermostat rod two or three tuns to get a few mm of extension of poppet of the rod or just bend the hoop the other way.
I think this was detailed in the late model bug forum last year, but there has to be SOME airflow over the cylinders to heat up the thermostat enough to open. VW had rubber bumpers on the flaps when new to avoid rattling when closed AND to let a little air through for thermostat triggering.
Good luck!
Robbie |
That's kind of what I am thinking is the issue, "30 yr old parts on 30 yr old parts"
I tried bending that hoop as much as possible, i tried bending the rod and bending the bracket down a bit, but it just felt wrong to do all that..
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scubaseas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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Please go to Awesome Powdercoating and watch their videos regarding assembling the tin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHCZoK-DXEc&list=PL5F64A01FA2D7E128&index=3
You need to install the generator into the fan housing and put the generator stand on before adjusting the flaps.
X2 on what Robbie said.
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scubaseas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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Your generator, fan and fan housing mounted into the generator stand will determine the height of the fan housing. It's OK if the flaps don't close all the way. It's more important they open fully. Your heads or jugs may be hitting the flaps. If so you could cut about 1/8" off the right side flap bottoms or just assemble in proper order and make sure it opens all the way when hot.
VW engines are pretty straight forward do but they have to be put together in the right order.
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busdaddy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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X3 on the above, also a pic of the RH flap assy might help, many are tweaked from attempting to lift the shroud before removing the thermostat.
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AircooledHome
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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| scubaseas wrote: |
Your generator, fan and fan housing mounted into the generator stand will determine the height of the fan housing. It's OK if the flaps don't close all the way. It's more important they open fully. Your heads or jugs may be hitting the flaps. If so you could cut about 1/8" off the right side flap bottoms or just assemble in proper order and make sure it opens all the way when hot.
VW engines are pretty straight forward do but they have to be put together in the right order. |
I hear "its not important that they close all the way" but I want them to. I would rather it work full open and full close than not really work when its cold.
Ah good call on the alt determining shroud height.. Didnt think about that one.
The flaps arent hitting anything, already checked.
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scubaseas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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Might want to check these out too.
http://www.awesomepowdercoat.com/cylinder_air_vanes.html
If your flaps are straight they should work full close to full open but start with the proper sequence of assembly. After the fan, generator and shroud are on the generator stand it may work fine. If not a picture of the right side flap assembly would be telling.
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AircooledHome
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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| scubaseas wrote: |
Might want to check these out too.
http://www.awesomepowdercoat.com/cylinder_air_vanes.html
If your flaps are straight they should work full close to full open but start with the proper sequence of assembly. After the fan, generator and shroud are on the generator stand it may work fine. If not a picture of the right side flap assembly would be telling. |
OK I just tried installing the Alt stand / alternator and fan into fan shroud, still no luck. Sits about the same as before bolted down.
Let me disassemble and get a pic of the right flap
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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| I am going to guess that somehow the rod is attaching to the flaps wrong or that the rod is not bent correctly. Maybe someone has some pretty good pictures of what the parts should look like and exactly how they are supposed to fit together. |
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scubaseas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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I can't explain what is wrong. Try this. Take the tin off the right cylinders. Then mount the fan housing on the stand. You'll then see where you are hitting the head with the flap.
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scubaseas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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| Quote: |
| Maybe someone has some pretty good pictures of what the parts should look like and exactly how they are supposed to fit together. |
there's the rub. When he closes it the fan housing rises. The flap is hitting the head. I think the right outermost flap is slightly bent.
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AircooledHome
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scubaseas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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Decent picture in the article below
http://www.vw-resource.com/vanes_thermostat.html
Note how your outer flap is not vertical, straight up in full open position where the inner is. It looks bent on the shaft possibly when it got pulled off at some point in the past?
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scubaseas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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Apologies, the rub is no decent pictures
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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Is this how your rod is fitted?
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AircooledHome
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
Is this how your rod is fitted?
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Yep, and hard to say but my flaps look to be at the same angle as well.
Anyone have any problem with me bending the "thermostat housing" down, away from the push rod tubes, and or lengthening the adjustment slot that the stud / nut use to bolt the thermostat housing bracket to the sump? It'd give me full closed, and shouldn't hinder full open either.
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scubaseas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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Please note the flaps do not normally travel as far as you are making them go into the closed position. You normally have a rod and thermostat attached which will limit the amount of travel. It's more important the open position is obtained rather than the closed.
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AircooledHome
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: T-Stat Adjustment (Wont Close Flaps) |
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| scubaseas wrote: |
| Please note the flaps do not normally travel as far as you are making them go into the closed position. You normally have a rod and thermostat attached which will limit the amount of travel. It's more important the open position is obtained rather than the closed. |
I am fairly confident that the flaps are designed to close more than I am observing them to be closing. They are moving maybe 1/2 inch. Possibly the air would be moved away from cyl head, but definitely wouldn't be re-directed to cabin heat.
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