Clutch noise like an old door creaking!

[david2676]

Getting ready to pull my tranny, it started making noise when we were in Mexico we drove from Belize to Ca. at first it seemed like it was coming from the pedal. I replace the clutch master, slave and the pedal .... as time went on it was clear the noise is coming from in side the bell housing, with the engine off as you push the pedal there is a creaking noise like an old door that needs some oil... it creaks every time and as the engine gets hot the pedal becomes harder to push. The clutch works and engages as it should.

Tranny is freshly rebuilt... I am running a ej25 with a KEP adapter. all of the cluth components are newish just a milage from Ca on this trip.

any ideas what I should look for ? the only thing I am guessing is one of Pressure plate fingers is stiff or broken ?
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64 bug
91 Vanagon/ Subaru swap Westfalia

[DanHoug]

when you replaced the slave, did you put a dab of grease/moly/goat cheese on the ball&socket?

the clutch cross shaft can get quite dry. it rides in synthetic bushings but those can get very cruddy. try spraying some penetrant right where the clutch shaft enters the housing. it'll only be a temporary fix but it might help track where the noise is coming from if it quiets down. the rest is all lubed inside the housing... throw out bearing carrier & ears, mainshaft splines, clutch shaft.

-dan

[Vanagon Nut]

I've been dealing with what sounds like the same thing. My thread:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=681512&highlight=clutch

Lubing the cross shaft bushing via exterior and through 11 mm head bolt hole has reduced noise and feel at pedal. But at times, clutch still shudders starting from a stop, especially in reverse. Most of the time, I can "drive around that" and clutch engages ok.

The shudder and noise gets worse on hot days, driven more. Maybe because bushing lube thins out due to ambient heat and engine heat? It's possible a little engine oil has contaminated clutch and the [edit: new Meyle] Fox engine mounts I use with this non stock engine aren't as stable as they could be but in spite of recently adding a "snub" isolator between body and engine, the shudder can still happen.

When I first did the engine swap, clutch worked fine; I had rebuilt the clutch housing at that time. After the rebuilt tranny and new Sachs clutch kit were installed by shop, shudder issue cropped up. I have to wonder if excessive play (movement) at cross shaft and outer bushing allows the TOB to bounce off the clutch fingers or something like that.

It's quite possible that a rebuilt tranny doesn't always mean new cross shaft bushings.

Watch the clutch operating lever while helper slowly pushes down clutch pedal. Look for movement between shaft and bushing. Or, even lifting the shaft by hand can reveal play. Especially if you lift the clutch slave socket off the lever ball. If there's play, it doesn't require a lot of effort to move the end of the shaft up by hand. Before removing the 11 mm head bolt that holds the actual bearing bushing from rotating, though it has a low torque value, spray penetration fluid on it first.

The cross shaft [edit: outer end] bushing is made up of several parts. A corrugated rubber seal inside each end of a white plastic sleeve and shorter thicker grey bushing inside middle of that white sleeve. AFAIK, in that bushing assembly, the grey part is the friction surface for cross shaft. The bronze bushing at other end can wear but is tougher to replace.

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[[email protected]]

[DanHoug]

when i did my tranny rebuild, i replaced the white plastic bushing and the rubber 'gators' with the available bronze one. lubed with HondaMoly grease. shaft rotation went from very stiff to smooooth. didn't replace the most interior bushing as it looked hard to get to. shaft has very little wiggle fore and aft with the new bronze bushing anyway. new slave cyl, moly on the ball joint, moly where the TO bearing slides on the guide, moly on the mainshaft splines. new clutch pack of course.

clutch pedal pressure is extremely light. in fact i thought something was wrong. very nice clutch engagement, no chatter. one of the sweetest clutches i've driven with the high torque of the 2.1. just let the clutch out and you're moving.

-dan

[Vanagon Nut]

[david2676]

Update ... pulled the tranny turns out 1. the New cheap Chinese through out bearing was dead... it was still working of course but clearly poorly made part. I bought a few spare parts on line and I used a couple things building this van for the trip... I have learned my lesson no more cheap parts.

2. the cross arm needed to be rebuilt - in all honestly I had completely over looked it.

all back together now ..
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64 bug
91 Vanagon/ Subaru swap Westfalia

[Vanagon Nut]

Glad it worked out.

IMO, the cross arm bushings are easy for most folks to over look. And I don't mean that in a disrespectful way! It's an "out of sight out of mind" set of parts. But then these vans are old so its one of those things we have to watch.


Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[david2676]

Yep your correct, its one of those things that it worked at the time so you don't think about rebuilding it only to find out it requires pulling the tranny again. I kinda wish the when I had my tranny rebuilt they would have done it or at least mentioned it as a " you might want to take care of this "

OH well now I know ...
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64 bug
91 Vanagon/ Subaru swap Westfalia