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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50356
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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 Bench ran fine, installed in the bus failing. |
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Terminatez wrote: |
Oh, and this is how the Orings looked before the shims...
They wouldn't go further in. Without the other side coming out the same way. Heads torqued correctly.
After adding the shims they were ok... short push rod tubes or what is your guys opinion? |
Either the tubes are too short or the cylinders and/or shim pack too long/thick. How much did you shim the bases of the cylinders? |
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Terminatez Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2015 Posts: 340 Location: Sun Valley, CA
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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 Bench ran fine, installed in the bus failing. |
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Used .120 cylinder shims to get a CR of 7.9. Type 4 Store recommended a range from 7.6-8.1:1.
I've been wondering why the tubes were like that, guess that's the reason.
What the consensus on using shims on the tubes, spring versions, or just longer ones?
http://www.europeanmotorworks.com/pvw/054-712/type-4-lifters-pushrods/Stroker+Pushrod+Tube _________________ 1972 Westfalia P30 hardtop Campmobile [On-going Restoration]
aeromech wrote: |
I don't think I've ever seen an engine in worse shape. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50356
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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 Bench ran fine, installed in the bus failing. |
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0.12" shims seem like a lot especially assuming those are new AMC heads with a step in them. The original VW deck height was around 0.080" and the heads had no step, so your engine may have somewhere around 0.160" of deck which is going to kill your squish.
I would recommend giving The Type 4 Store a call. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 Bench ran fine, installed in the bus failing. |
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are you using flat top pistons? _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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MorkC68 Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2015 Posts: 610 Location: Nottingham, England
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 Bench ran fine, installed in the bus failing. |
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If it helps you guys, VW Heritage over here in the UK had a batch of short type 4 pushrod tubes.
When we built our 1911 we found four of them sat incorrectly, a bit like the image. When we removed them and measured them, they sat low when lined up with one another. _________________ Major; 1977 Westfalia Campmobile
- Subaru EJ20
- Koni Classic adjustable dampers & Empi Heavy Duty Anti Roll Bar
- 180W Solar System
My blog: https://twolatebays.wordpress.com/ |
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Terminatez Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2015 Posts: 340 Location: Sun Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 Bench ran fine, installed in the bus failing. |
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SGKent wrote: |
are you using flat top pistons? |
Type4Store camper special kit bought when the 1975 kit was available early of last year. _________________ 1972 Westfalia P30 hardtop Campmobile [On-going Restoration]
aeromech wrote: |
I don't think I've ever seen an engine in worse shape. |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 Bench ran fine, installed in the bus failing. |
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I’m surprised that you’re having issues. I thought the CS was the best available. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50356
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 Bench ran fine, installed in the bus failing. |
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Terminatez wrote: |
SGKent wrote: |
are you using flat top pistons? |
Type4Store camper special kit bought when the 1975 kit was available early of last year. |
If that picture was taken with the engine at TDC you have way too much deck and have an engine that will make poor power and is prone to knocking. |
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Terminatez Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2015 Posts: 340 Location: Sun Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 Bench ran fine, installed in the bus failing. |
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IIRC, this picture was taken when the shims arrived, don't think engine was at TDC. We opened the box, slapped a few stuff on to see what we were dealing with. My engine builder did the calculations for CR and talked with t4store when doing the calculations. Engine builder is on vacations right now, so I was left with hooking it up to the bus.. we're exchanging emails talking about the current issues. Deck height should have been at .12 inches, the shims gave us that number for a CR of 7.9. Thoughts?
_________________ 1972 Westfalia P30 hardtop Campmobile [On-going Restoration]
aeromech wrote: |
I don't think I've ever seen an engine in worse shape. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50356
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 Bench ran fine, installed in the bus failing. |
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My preference would be a tighter deck and a live with the compression you get.
I just used the Summit Racing compression calculator using these parameters from memory. Might be some mistakes here?
Bore: 94mm
Stroke: 71mm
Head vol: 57cc
Dish vol: 19cc
Deck height: .040"
CR= 6.94:1
If you change your deck to .120" then you get
CR= 6.08:1 |
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Terminatez Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2015 Posts: 340 Location: Sun Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 Bench ran fine, installed in the bus failing. |
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Shit.
I believe, it's 50cc for the head vol., I'll have to double check that.
Regardless, it looks like .120 isn't the correct deck height.
I'll keep everyone updated. _________________ 1972 Westfalia P30 hardtop Campmobile [On-going Restoration]
aeromech wrote: |
I don't think I've ever seen an engine in worse shape. |
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Terminatez Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2015 Posts: 340 Location: Sun Valley, CA
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 Bench ran fine, installed in the bus failing. |
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Ok so I've resolved one issue, a few left though.
I changed the small 3/16 outlet hose and used the 5.5mm Honda hose aeromech recommended long ago. If you're new here, don't be like me. Follow what others already know works.
I tested the fuel pressure but it was still wacky below 2 psi and would not move.
Regulator:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-803
I decided to work backwards from the gauge to the regulator. I went online and bought a gauge from summit and also noticed for $7 they had a repair kit for the regulator so I said why not.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-12-807
Took the gauge apart, used compressed air to test it and it didn't even work. I also took the time to replace the diaphragm from the regulator, and when I opened it noticed the spring was bent poorly. So I'm pretty sure it was a mixture of a bad regulator (now fixed using the kit) and a bad gauge.
Both are now fixed and fuel pressure works as it should now. _________________ 1972 Westfalia P30 hardtop Campmobile [On-going Restoration]
aeromech wrote: |
I don't think I've ever seen an engine in worse shape. |
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