Which coil with electronic ignition?

[drzmark]

Hi all, I think my coil is going (getting way hot and killing the motor after a longer ride and idling at stop lights, hard restart when hot, etc.) anyway, the PO had put a "Breakerless Electronic Ignition" from Universal Corp (see photo) and I'm not sure which coil would be needed. Any thoughts?

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[Dale M.]

Maybe try contacting manufacturer of "electronic ignition" and see what coil they recommend....

I always like the BOSCH blue coil (12 volt) for either points or "electronic module" points replacement units...

Dale
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[Glenn]

[miniman82]

Most likely you need a coil that's designed to be used without a ballast, but I don't know how to tell which ones don't have one. You could always just get an aftermarket Mallory coil...
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[74 Thing]

I believe you can use any coil with Universal's products, but you may want to contact them

http://www.universal-co.com/

[Dale M.]

Reviewing instructions for some CD boxes by well know manufactures any coil with a primary of 1.5 to 3.0 OHMS seems to be ok.....

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[drzmark]

[Scott Novak]

If you are using points or a simple point eliminator ignition module, you will need a ballast resistance to limit the maximum current flow through the primary winding of the ignition coil. It's always better to use an ignition coil with an external ballast resistance. Using an internal ballast resistance is convenient, however, the ignition coil runs hotter, and raises the resistance of the copper windings and you lose output voltage and current when the ignition coil warms up.

The output voltage and current isn't adversely affected by the ballast resistance because the 3 ohm ballast resistance in the primary circuit is in series with the secondary winding and it's resistance so small that, with the lower secondary current, almost no voltage is dropped across the ballast resistance and lost. The spark is generated by a rapid change in primary current which is accomplished by opening the points or electronic switch inside a point replacement module.

With a capacitive discharge ignition system the situation changes completely. A capacitive discharge ignition system devlops a rapid change in current by connecting a high voltage of around 500 volts across the primary winding. It doesn't take much primary resistance to reduce the primary current which will in turn reduce the output voltage.

Better capacitive discharge ignition systems can operate ignition coils with less than 0.5 ohms resistance. If you have a capacitive discharge ignition system that requires an ignition coil with a primary resistance of greater than 1.0 ohm, it's a piece of crap.

I did a test with an ignition coil with a 0.4 ohm resistance primary and a capcitive discharge ignition system, and then repeated the test with an external ballast resistor that resulted in a total ballast resistance of 2.8 ohms, which is the cold resistance of the Bosch Blue coil that I have. Adding the resistance reduced the output voltage by over 16%!!! A Bosch Blue ignition coil with the 2.8 Ohm primary resistance should NOT be used with a capacitive discharge ignition system.

You should also use an ignition coil with an air gapped core, because it is load sensitive and will output more current when you need it, such as over-rich spark plug fouling conditions. It will also output more current under normal conditions. Jacobs ignition coils have air gapped cores. The Mallory #30440 e-core ignition coil also has an air gapped core. However it has a 1:100 turns ratio that does not transfer power into the spark as well as a lower turns ratio. One of my preferred ignition coils is an older Jacobs ignition coil with a 1:60 turns ratio. With a normal fresh spark plug, it's shunt resistance is about 1,000,000 ohms. With this real world load resistance a 1:60 turns ratio ignition coil can output as much voltage as a 1:100 turns ratio ignition coil. However, the 1:60 turns ratio ignition coil will output more voltage and current than a 1:100 turns ratio ignition coil into a 500,000 ohm load which simulates an extreme engine condition or spark plug fouling conditions. The higher 1:100 turns ratio ignition coil will only output more voltage with no load, which is an unreal condition that never happens. A 1:100 turns ratio ignition coil only looks like it outputs higher voltage on paper, but not in the real word.

Some advanced inductive switching electronic ignition systems, such as the Jacobs Mileage Master, should not be run with a ballast resistance, as the ignition computer already has the proper amount of ballast resistance inside. Using an ignition coil with a built in ballast resistor will reduce it's output voltage and current.

The ignition system pictured appears to be a simple points eliminator which will require a ballast resistance. I couldn't find any information on the website that indicated what minimum ballast resistance was required. So I'd use a total ballast resistance of at about 3.0 Ohms.

Scott Novak

[The13bats]

Yes i know old thread but i happened to have this same points eliminating set up as the op, its been in a junk box at least 30 years, in the dizzy is a disc with what appears to be optic not magnetic pick up or sensor,

I cant find any real info online the company has a website but defunct email and no info
seems JC Whitney sold these in the day so tell me how did they work compared to the modern ones and were they any good?
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[Scott Novak]

[The13bats]

Thats a crappy pic pic from their website mine is the same, ill check tommorow for any part numbers,
the back story, in the mid 80s my dad ordered it from jc whitney it was in a 009,
the kit car had a zeinth 2 barrel one side fed one bank and my dad never could get ut tuned to his liking, he was a navy plane tech and picky he didnt like the ignition module the instructions said use a black permanent marker and draw a line on each corner of the rotor shaft, turned him off so he clipped the wires at the dist end to remove it and stuck in points,
im a pack rat and kept it, if you look at the pic i can use that as a guide to solder the wires back even that little white dot is on mine for reference,
i would like to try it but also curious why all the popular kits nowdays are magnetic,
im not really expecting it to work but who knows
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[Scott Novak]

[nextgen]

Scott been a while. OK one question I have always meant to ask you, As you can see my Jacobs Bug Pac.

I was told about 25 years ago I could use the blue coil, which is the same one on the engine in the photo. Also the kit came with a cable to fit in to the out put of the coil and the other end was made to go directly to ground with a screw. You can see it on the right side of my engine laying across the sheet metal.

It also said it did not need to be used at all. Been using it for 25 years and love the Jacobs. What is the story with grounding or not, what does do seeing the coil is only a trigger.

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[Turnswrenches]

I use an MSD Streetfire CD box, Pertronix billet distributor and MSD Blaster coil with no ballast resistor.
It runs great and has no issues.

[The13bats]

Thats my optics ring, the ring part is about .25 thick, and thats my dist, does it look like i can use that disc that was out of a 009 in my 034 ?
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[Scott Novak]

[Scott Novak]

[The13bats]

Sorry, i believe i confused that, the picture of the distributor still has the magnetic module and its magnet ring on the rotor shaft,

my thought was remove it all and replace it with the optics kit, which the other picture is the ring that is basically just to mount it in the distributor, the optics is the little triangle part held to it with a screw which allows one to adjust the cleance between the optic sensor and rotor shaft,
then the 3 wires are soldered to the sensor and go to the 70s looking controller/brain box,

no other parts go in the dist it reads off the flats on the rotor shaft and as i said they wanted black marker lines on each cornor, my dad called it rinky dink and never really gave it a chance since he had carb issues at the same time, so i have no clue if it would have worked

since my magnetic module seems to have gone out i just wanted to try the optics one to save a buck for the moment and for fun of an old school odd part.

fun side note, in the 80s the car had a big odd shaped accel coil, and a few years back a guy who bought the car contacted me it to get info and i learned it was still running on that old big coil from the 80s.
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We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams......

[Scott Novak]

[The13bats]

ill try to get to it today or tonight and post results after testing...its only been sitting in my junk stash about 35 years,

so whats your guess when it was new could it have worked pretty good?
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