Torsion arm/bushing replacement?

[hometurbine]

Hello all,
I took out the torsion arms and am about to replace the ball joints. Before doing so, I've read many of the threads and Bentley, but am looking on how to proceed on arm/bushings. My upper torsion arm has galling/wear in the bushing (inner) position, whereas looks ok in the needle bearing (outer) position (see 2 pics).

Per the Bentely it states if there is wear on the arm to replace the arm, bearing, and bushing (see pic). But how much wear is too much?

So should I
1) Replace the torsion arm?
2) Replace the bushing?
3) Just rebuild it, will be fine

BTW: I have a '75 Westy

Thanks for the input.
Bill

_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[Wildthings]

Assuming the undamaged portion of the arm is still riding within a tight bushing, I would just run with it as is.

[SGKent]

replacing the inner bushings requires:

1) very special tools. Very few people have them. Messing up the installation will ruin the torsion tube.

2) finding the replacement bushings. There are two styles. Often all that can be found are used ones that have some life left.

3) finding new torsion arms that are in excellent condition. They don't come up for sale often and many places that sell rebuilt ones take ones like yours, polish them and hope the next buyer doesn't notice it.

4) Some people use a poly bushing to replace the factory style. I haven't used one but you might ask the opinion of some folks who have.

Until you have replacement parts and the tools, I would polish those with 300 grit wet and dry, clean them and reuse them, making sure to grease them well.
_________________
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin

[scrivyscriv]

I haven't seen any suppliers that sell the inner bushing so you might be opening a can of worms if you get too deep in there. That wear does look pretty bad, I'm wondering how the bushing looks.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[hometurbine]

Ahh...yea...special tools...can of worms....

It all started with let me replace the brake lines....while I'm at it I will replace the ball joints...while the torsion arms are out....hmm...I see one has wear...the needle bearings seem ok, but uncertain on the bushings. I don't know how to inspect them without removing the leaf springs and then pushing out the bushing, which, as stated would needing special tools. Then would need to be re-installed correctly.

I also looked at the bushings and as stated seem NLA. I have a machine shop so I could make new ones, if I knew the dimensions, but not sure it's worth it.

I also have a friend with a "parts bus", but no guarantee those torsion arms are better.

So you guys are swaying me towards...polish it and move on for now, and keep an eye out for parts and maybe a rebuild later.

Ok...so I'll start making the home-built VW tool 459 for removing/pressing the new ball joints in a press. Anyone have dimensions? If not, will just measure off the parts.

Thanks
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[hometurbine]

Ok...so looking at Bentley again, making the tool to remove the bushings/bearings doesn't look too bad.

A few questions, assuming I want to tackle this and find parts:
1) Anyone know the 2 diameters on the end-cap piece (see pic)? OD 1 is probably a few mils larger than then torsion arm, not sure about OD 2, but it has to be smaller than the end-stop in the beam.

2) in the bushing location schematic (to push back in) there is a dimension "a". Is that for the wide bushings? Mine has later narrower bushings, I believe. I can always measure that based on the location of the scoring marks on my torsion arm. Also, can anyone explain why the bushings went from wide to narrow? That seems counter-intuitive as far as spreading out load.

_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[SGKent]

the toll cannot catch the plastic outer bushing or your tube is done. WHu knows why VW went to the thinner ones. They are NLA and I would not trust the re-pops that come up from time to time. You will need to make a tool then pull a bunch from donors and reuse the best. you will need to make a tool to measure the depth of the inner bearings. Main thing is if you screw up the plastic outer bushing you are hosed. I think I gave my spare set of tools to Colin. You might check with him. Dave in Australia had them made. I got mine from Baum but I think it was the last set.
_________________
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin

[hometurbine]

Thanks for the input. I'll hold off for now, while I keep an eye out for parts.

However, as I said I have a machine shop in the garage and I'm currently making the 459 tool for the ball joints. I don't have an issue making the 771 tool, I just need some dimensions. From what you're stating the "OD2" dimension is critical.

I'll check with Colin if I want to pursue this further.

Thanks again.
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[kevin77westy]

Reviving this post - I'm in the same boat with the same can of worms. My left lower torsion arm shows similar wear where the inner bushing rides - rest of them look good. Looks like the inner metal bushing is still NLA so I am leaning toward the suggestion to polish it up as much as I can and leave the inner bushing alone. I will pull the torsion leaves and clean the old gunk out while I am here. I am pondering my options (polish&reuse vs replace arm) and am curious which route the OP took and how things worked out? I wonder if this would even be an acceptable core for a torsion arm swap? Any suggestions are appreciated. Here is mine:

Thanks!
Kevin

[SGKent]

you have to own the special tools, and it is not a job for the faint of heart. The late bushings are NLA, you can get used ones from Nate but they will be wider than the late ones - and without the tool you cannot remove or put them in. I've done them and like I said, if you screw up the beam is probably junk.

I would replace the arms with some that are less worn. That is about all you can do until someone makes replacement bushings and you find the special tools.
_________________
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin

[jtauxe]

During the '78 DC rebuild, we completely rebuilt the front suspension. New bushings were machined from Delrin. If you have a machine shop, you could do that if you have to.
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD

[raygreenwood]

[kevin77westy]

Thanks all. Pretty sure I am in the 'faint of heart' category here as far as messing with the beam internals too much. If the bushing and tools were available, it would be different but as it stands, I would be better off getting a better beam to save me the time and hassle of ruining the old one . I do have a wrecked 79 in the barn - front end damage but I think the beam is straight. Might pull the torsion arms to see how they look - could get lucky, maybe once. Then it turns into a 2 beam affair. oh the fun!

[Cera]

Reviving this as well since I found myself from the same situation. How're you two holding up with your scratched arms?

Mine look like yikes:

All 4 of them!

So I'm looking for "best out of bad options" here.

They do apparently sell the inner bushings here in Europe: https://www.bus-ok.de/T2b-Metallbuchse-fuer-Traghebel-ab-871-Verglnr-211401321A-B-Eigenprodukt

But changing it looks like real pain and I really am not that experienced with these kind of things to tackle it alone so I'll probably need to find local machine shop willing to try it out if I'll end up going that route.

Anyway replacing all four torsion arms + 4 needle bearings + 4 bushings ends up crazy expensive very quickly even if I'll find someone to help me out with the inner bushings. My needle bearings look fine, but if I'll go that route I'll probably replace those as well just to be sure.

So before making any decisions, looking at others who've been in the same boat, how bad an idea it'd be to just polish these up for now, toss in a very liberal amount of grease and cross my fingers it'll last?

[SGKent]

you have to find the tools first. Without those it cannot be done.
_________________
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin

[kevin77westy]

Dang! That is ugly. I only had a single offender so decided against the beam swap. I ordered torsion arms with new ball joints pressed in and cleaned the beam tube really well before installing. Yours may need more corrective action if you can find a competent fixer or a donor beam. Any bus boneyards up there in Finland?

[SGKent]

I replaced the bushings on my 77 bay but I have the factory tools. It cannot be done without the proper ones.
_________________
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin

[Cera]

[SGKent]

[Cera]