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CrashedAgain
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2007
Posts: 328
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
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 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: Crankshaft Front Oil Seal |
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Recently replaced the crankshaft front seal---twice.
Following advice found on several sites, I installed the seal until flush with the casing by tapping using a piece of wood which straddled the opening so as to not tap on the seal directly.
This is NOT deep enough.
Here's what happens if you don't get the seal seated deep enough into the crankcase:
So next time I made an installer tool:
It is just two "washers" cut from some scrap plexiglas (could be made from almost any material) so that the flywheel retaining bolt can be used to press the seal into place.
Washers are just over 3.5" O.D. (must be small enough to fit into the recess in the crankcase), one with 1 1/8" dia hole and the other with 2" dia hole so it will fit down past the flywheel locating studs.
Hope this keeps somebody else from having to learn the hard way! |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80522
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Home made tools are nice, but the real tool isn't expensive and lasts a lifetime.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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CrashedAgain
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2007
Posts: 328
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Nice...but delivery from anywhere would take days. Not good when the beast is apart all over the garage floor.
Took about 1/2 hour to make up the homemade version.
I guess my beef really is with the inaccurate advice which caused me to do the job wrong the first time. |
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The Noof
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005
Posts: 4346
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| It's too bad you're the victim of bad advice:it's the curse and blessing of the internet.There's defineatly too much misinformation. |
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bugninva
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2004
Posts: 8857
Location: sound it out.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| CrashedAgain wrote: |
I guess my beef really is with the inaccurate advice which caused me to do the job wrong the first time. |
common knowledge is that seals need to be seated, not pressed partway in... Bad and inaccurate advice is rampant on the net, as Noof said it's the blessing and curse of the net... But it's the price you pay.. If you really want to go the "cheap" route, do as I suggest everyone that wants to work on these things to do, buy a repair manual for the vehicle.. they are CHEAP and contain these small details like the flywheel seal needs to be seated squarely in the bottom of the bore...
It's not the fault of who gave the inaccurate advice, it's the fault of the user of the advice for not doing their research properly before doing the job... that's not a slam on you, it goes for anyone and everyone... Get a manual, it pays for itself...
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| With a show of hands, who has built over 1000 engines in the last 25 years? Anyone? |
GEX has. Just sayin |
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sturgeongeneral
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2005
Posts: 2460
Location: Sacramento, California
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| bugninva wrote: |
| CrashedAgain wrote: |
I guess my beef really is with the inaccurate advice which caused me to do the job wrong the first time. |
It's not the fault of who gave the inaccurate advice, it's the fault of the user of the advice for not doing their research properly before doing the job... that's not a slam on you, it goes for anyone and everyone... Get a manual, it pays for itself... |
I agree! Even after building these things for 35 years I still refer to my library of manuals now and then. They are priceless!
_________________
Street legal fiberglass rocket ship
2005 Lotus Elise supercharged
1974 Chevy Corvette
My fiberglass car collection!
In honor of bowtie56jw:Another victim of the nasty "C" Praying for ya Jeff!
My exwife said if I towed home one more bug she would leave me. You know, every once in a while I miss her |
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CrashedAgain
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2007
Posts: 328
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| bugninva wrote: |
..... it's the fault of the user of the advice for not doing their research properly before doing the job... that's not a slam on you, it goes for anyone and everyone... Get a manual, it pays for itself... |
Sounds a bit like a slam to me...
I have done my research...I have two manuals:
Haynes manual...relevant section says "Coat the outer edge of the new oil seal with sealant and place it squarely in position into the crankcase with the spring side of the seal facing inwards. Press it into place using a block of wood and a hammer or a special tool."
Muir's "how to keep your VW Alive" says "The seal will either be flush or just a hair in." (Actually it is in nearly 1/8 inch)
As I said, I found several 'net references which suggested using a block of wood larger than the opening and installing the seal until it is flush. After failure of the first attempt I finally found one (only one) which said the seal MUST be pressed in until it is firmly seated in the recess. |
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CHB73SB
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2008
Posts: 385
Location: Waynesboro Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:34 am Post subject: |
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The last time i had my seal installed the guy that did it, did it with a 2lb. rubber tipped hammer right on the seal. First he packed the seal with vasoline so the guarder spring wouldnt pop out. And it held up fine. Then again i think he may have perfected this art as he has been doing it since '63.
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1973 Super Beetle |
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neil68
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2007
Posts: 3452
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: delivery |
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| CrashedAgain wrote: |
Nice...but delivery from anywhere would take days. Not good when the beast is apart all over the garage floor.
Took about 1/2 hour to make up the homemade version.
I guess my beef really is with the inaccurate advice which caused me to do the job wrong the first time. |
You could call Concept 1 in Calgary...they have a toll free number. They can probably mail it to you quite quickly:
http://concept1.ca/AIR%20COOLED%20FOLDER/Air%20Parts%20PG.htm
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Neil.
Der Kleiner Rennwagens
‘68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 108 mph
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CrashedAgain
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2007
Posts: 328
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Hadn't heard of them...good to know there is another supplier nearby.
Don't need to buy the oil seal installer though....my homemade worked just fine and the cost was $0.00. |
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bugninva
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2004
Posts: 8857
Location: sound it out.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| CrashedAgain wrote: |
| Sounds a bit like a slam to me... |
Nope, not at all... it was the truth... also see my signature and realize this is the internet... As Bob Hoover always said "you are the mechanic in charge)..
| CrashedAgain wrote: |
I have done my research...I have two manuals:
Haynes manual...relevant section says "Coat the outer edge of the new oil seal with sealant and place it squarely in position into the crankcase with the spring side of the seal facing inwards. Press it into place using a block of wood and a hammer or a special tool."
Muir's "how to keep your VW Alive" says "The seal will either be flush or just a hair in." (Actually it is in nearly 1/8 inch)
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this *is* a slam, but not you you, you say you have two manuals, but you really only have one...
| Bentley Manual wrote: |
| (step 2 of four step process) 2. Install new oil seal, using special tool. Screw tool into crankshaft and insert oil seal by tightening the guide piece. Oil seal must bed squarely on bottom of recess |
Now for future reference, if the seal does not have a flange that bottoms on the exterior it should be driven squarely and fully into it's bore..
| CrashedAgain wrote: |
As I said, I found several 'net references which suggested using a block of wood larger than the opening and installing the seal until it is flush. After failure of the first attempt I finally found one (only one) which said the seal MUST be pressed in until it is firmly seated in the recess. |
No offense(again, and I mean it) there are just as many quotes to be found from folks telling others that it needs to be seated fully into the bore.. that is why, you being the mechanic, need to do the research, then decide what is the best way to procede. If you choose the wrong way, lesson learned...... sites like this are wonderful, but there are just as many opinions as there are "facts" and then there is an equal amount of parroting and repeating myths... then there's just the plain ole misinformation that flies around(usually because it's parroted by someone that doesn't know any better)...
_________________
| [email protected] wrote: |
| With a show of hands, who has built over 1000 engines in the last 25 years? Anyone? |
GEX has. Just sayin |
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swharris
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010
Posts: 646
Location: N. Orange County
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| bugninva wrote: |
| CrashedAgain wrote: |
I guess my beef really is with the inaccurate advice which caused me to do the job wrong the first time. |
common knowledge is that seals need to be seated, not pressed partway in... Bad and inaccurate advice is rampant on the net, as Noof said it's the blessing and curse of the net... But it's the price you pay.. If you really want to go the "cheap" route, do as I suggest everyone that wants to work on these things to do, buy a repair manual for the vehicle.. they are CHEAP and contain these small details like the flywheel seal needs to be seated squarely in the bottom of the bore...
It's not the fault of who gave the inaccurate advice, it's the fault of the user of the advice for not doing their research properly before doing the job... that's not a slam on you, it goes for anyone and everyone... Get a manual, it pays for itself... |
The FACTORY T2 manual (Bentley reprint) says nothing about "fully seating". Just says "install" crankshaft seal. You are supposed to know this. It was taught to you when you were an apprentice....oh wait. <Sad> |
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vwkirb
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007
Posts: 812
Location: Athens, GA
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Crankshaft Front Oil Seal |
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I just flip over an old seal and tap it it in.
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Andrew Kirby |
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mcmscott
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4946
Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Crankshaft Front Oil Seal |
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I just push them in with my fingers, very easy to do. No tool is needed.
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There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27754
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Crankshaft Front Oil Seal |
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This thread is from... 8 years ago?
Try that with a subaru.....the seal will fall inside 
many different kinds out there, no ONE way to do it. |
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