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VW_Jimbo 
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9973
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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 Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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Nice update! That door looks great!
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Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
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tehillah1
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 279
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:32 am Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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| Thanks for keeping an eye on me Jimbo! |
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tehillah1
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 279
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:05 am Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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I've got the left door just about prepped for a shot of primer....but the deeper I dig the more I find. Reminds me of doing remodel work on older homes...
I found this crack outside the bottom of the vent window channel on the outside
I'm sure I've seen this crack on other projects here.
Got it mostly squared away
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Dan22
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Joined: August 30, 2019
Posts: 470
Location: Battle Ground, WA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2023 10:44 am Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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Many doors need this fix. Both of them on my car.
I recommend bending the channel for the rubber back, and welding down the inside edge. Otherwise, the crack will reform. Then re-bend the channel back.
On mine, I also added (spot welded) a doubler plate underneath the crack for strength. I do not want the crack to come back ever!
I don't have a finished pic but you get the idea. All the holes welded up.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=765074 |
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tehillah1
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 279
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2023 11:43 am Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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| doubler plate makes good sense... |
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9973
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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| tehillah1 wrote: |
| doubler plate makes good sense... |
Except for the rust that will start there! Better a crack, than rust.
Anytime you have two pieces of steel welded to one another, you are going to have moisture find its way in there. Add to that the location, the exterior, next to a window, which has a rail that tells the water to run down the divider bar and end up at the crack! You would be best served with a thicker piece of steel right there, but then; how to form it? will it crack at each of the two weld joints?
Might be better served with just a segment of 1/8' plate welded to the underside of the crack, about 3 inches long, but again, the rust?
I welded mine up, with a copper backer at the inside, and a thick, multi rowed weld bead. Betting it will crack in a few years. If it gets bad, I will have to figure out a better way then!
Lots of ways to complete that repair. Just not too many practical solutions that include longevity! Thats a hard spot!
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Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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tehillah1
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 279
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
I welded mine up, with a copper backer at the inside, and a thick, multi rowed weld bead. Betting it will crack in a few years. If it gets bad, I will have to figure out a better way then!
Lots of ways to complete that repair. Just not too many practical solutions that include longevity! Thats a hard spot! |
I think I'm shooting for the thick weld approach, making certain I've got good penetration on the back side...seal it up and hope for the best.
I think part of the issue I see is that the vent channel is not spot-welded to the outter door skin at this point. That would stiffen things up some. Also the window channel was only connected at the inner door skin since the door stanchion was broken off at the missing bracket at the bottom of the door. That would have added to the flexing every time the vent was operated or the window rolled up or down...this design went away in the 56 and up doors I think. Wonder if the "new" design improved this spot.
Longevity? I'm older than this car so I suspect it'll be way down the road next time this crack shows up. I'd love if I was driving it worrying about that crack coming back...I appreciate all y'all chiming in and keeping an eye on me... |
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9973
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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| tehillah1 wrote: |
| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
I welded mine up, with a copper backer at the inside, and a thick, multi rowed weld bead. Betting it will crack in a few years. If it gets bad, I will have to figure out a better way then!
Lots of ways to complete that repair. Just not too many practical solutions that include longevity! Thats a hard spot! |
I think I'm shooting for the thick weld approach, making certain I've got good penetration on the back side...seal it up and hope for the best.
I think part of the issue I see is that the vent channel is not spot-welded to the outter door skin at this point. That would stiffen things up some. Also the window channel was only connected at the inner door skin since the door stanchion was broken off at the missing bracket at the bottom of the door. That would have added to the flexing every time the vent was operated or the window rolled up or down...this design went away in the 56 and up doors I think. Wonder if the "new" design improved this spot.
Longevity? I'm older than this car so I suspect it'll be way down the road next time this crack shows up. I'd love if I was driving it worrying about that crack coming back...I appreciate all y'all chiming in and keeping an eye on me... |
When I was 15, I had the crack on the passenger door of my 55 Bug welded up. Guy was a friend of my Dad. He owned a custom metal fabrication shop, in the building next to my Dad’s custom cabinet shop. Dave was an excellent guy. Patience and great at explaining how things worked, as he saw it! He watched me restore my corn field found 55, from an ugly eyesore to a fairly decent Bug.
Anyways, the door crack. Dave is over BSing with my Dad and sees me out working on “the Bug”. Comes over and start a conversation about “restoring cars”. One thing leads to another, and 2 hours later, the crack at the door is welded, very nicely, by a highly skilled technician! Multiple beads laid me on top of the other, across about 1/2 inch the area of the crack. So, in essence a giant blob of steel, wider than the divider bar. Dad tells me to give Dave 20 bucks (a shit ton of money in 1986) for the repair. I did and learned the value of a man’s time!
But also, Dave explained some stuff to me, that has never left my mind, regarding that weld! That is one, “very stressed out area of the door”, bending each time it is opened and shut. Learned a shit ton that day. Took 15 to 20 years before I fully understood what he was talking about, but now, I feel, I have a pretty basic understanding of and about steel and how it is!
Anyways. Butt and lap joints in steel have their places, but in an environment that our cars will see, they have no place, unless highly protected.
My 2 cents.
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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tehillah1
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 279
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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The bullet can in my left front fender was pretty funky...rust and fitment issues
so I got a replacement from WW which will do the job way better than the cuppa rust that it's replacing
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Dan22
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Joined: August 30, 2019
Posts: 470
Location: Battle Ground, WA
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9973
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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| Dan22 wrote: |
Looks Nice! Hope you got the aim straight forward.  |
This was my first thought as well! They always resemble nipples when they are pointing the wrong direction!
Be sure to double check that before you weld it in 100%. I would think a laser pointer would work amazing on this alignment. Set the laser on the inside opposite part of the fender, closer to the A pillar. Get it pointing through the wire hole of the nipple. Then remove the old nipple, and set the new one in place. Align it the best you can, then flip on the later and adjust it!
My 2 cents!
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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tehillah1
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 279
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2023 8:00 am Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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Wonky blinking nipples...
I lined it up to fit exactly where the original was but didn't bolt the fender up to the car and laser-beam it. I guess I'll see if I've made more work for myself in the future. |
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9973
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2023 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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| tehillah1 wrote: |
Wonky blinking nipples...
I lined it up to fit exactly where the original was but didn't bolt the fender up to the car and laser-beam it. I guess I'll see if I've made more work for myself in the future. |
I am sure it is fine. Have you ever seen one where they completely botched that install? It is F'N hilarious! All pointing off in the wrong directions!
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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tehillah1
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 279
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 7:36 am Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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Barney Google, Marty Feldman come to mind...I've seen them. I think it would be easy to accomplish the Marty Feldman look if you were trying to add bullets to later or earlier fenders, something I saw folks doing back in the 70s or 80s. Cutting that oval hole correctly would be a real challenge, something I've thought about with the BBT fenders that are now available. How would you locate the hole and cut it correctly to get the bullets mounted?
Next up on this fender is the headlight bucket. I'm gonna search that up here and see how it's been done before I go to cutting cancer.
I appreciate the feedback and input...keeps me in my lane. |
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tehillah1
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Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 279
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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Well I spent a spell this morning trying to find this kind of repair here on the Oval Forum...I'm sure I've seen some repairs similar to what needs done here but didn't come up with anything specific though I did a re-read of most of Jimbo's thread (https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=722610). Holy cow! Remembering where that thread started and where Jimbo's gotten to provides a lot of motivation and encouragement to keep plugging along.
I'm thinking I can repair these rust-throughs a piece at a time:
I'll start with one small bit and see how it goes. |
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Dan22
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Joined: August 30, 2019
Posts: 470
Location: Battle Ground, WA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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I have to do that repair as well. I will watch how it goes for you. 
If I can offer advice, before you cut the hole in the new metal for the conduit, bolt the fender and tube to the car to do the fit up and alignment, and even the tack welds. Then you shoud not have to fight it later.
I have heard that even on some of the high quality repop fenders, the tube does not mate up well with the body all the time.
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9973
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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| Dan22 wrote: |
I have to do that repair as well. I will watch how it goes for you.
If I can offer advice, before you cut the hole in the new metal for the conduit, bolt the fender and tube to the car to do the fit up and alignment, and even the tack welds. Then you shoud not have to fight it later.
I have heard that even on some of the high quality repop fenders, the tube does not mate up well with the body all the time. |
Good advice! Also, hammer the steel as close to the shape of the bucket before cutting the rusty part out. You will need a sand bag, to place the steel on and hammer it into shape or an English wheel, with a tiny wheel on one side. You just need to get it really close. Then, once you got the patch close, trace it on the bucket and cut out the rusty piece. Follow that with a tack weld, then hammer the new piece to shape. Another tack weld and more hammering. Over and over again! Get it all welded in place and ground down. Then install the wire conduit and drill a hole. Follow that up with some tack welds to the conduit. Grind it down and prime it!
You got this!
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5969
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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I did this exact repair recently
If you can find a dented old fender, you will be several steps ahead. Salvage the piece you need from the top of another headlight bucket. They’re symmetrical so the top has the same curves as the bottom.
So even that rusted out scrap fender might have something left to give
Your project is looking good!!
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tehillah1
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Joined: August 23, 2009
Posts: 279
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:53 am Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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There's a lot of good "fat" metal around the end of the tube so I'm hoping to affect a lot of small patches right up to the tube and extending out to good metal. I've fit the fender up to the car to ensure that nothing moves out of whack while I'm working.
What fender years would work for a salvage bucket if I need to take that route and can find a decent donor locally?
Shape, tack, hammer, tack...shape, tack, hammer...I'm getting some practice with that process |
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esde
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Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5969
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: The 'Ol 55 |
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I don't know when they changed shape, but even the "later" bucket is probably close enough to be donor sheet metal.
I've replaced the entire bucket also, just a bunch of spot welds to find and drill out..
https://www2.cip1.com/vwc-211-805-265-b/
And of course, just patching the holes works too, whatever gets it closed and done right?
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