Riviera Poptop Roof Restoration and hydraulic struts

[GoBigEmma]

Hello Rivi Roof Rebuilders (and non-building-curious-observers, of course)!

We just spent the last month or so rebuilding the Rivi top of our 1975 baywindow “Big Emma”. Considering rebuilding/refurbishing a Riviera pop-top seems to be (to our knowledge) a pretty rare project, we thought we would take the time to make a post to share our ideas/process with anybody who might find it useful in the future.

During our rebuild, we found these other Rivi-rebuild links useful:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417602
http://www.aircoolednut.com/cmgallery/thumbnails.php?album=103&page=1

For those who may be unaware, we were rebuilding it due to flood damage it received last year (see our thread). Part of the upper wooden frame was cracked, which made us uneasy. Hence the refurbish.

To keep my terminology clear here: “roof” refers to the fiberglass poptop. “Ceiling”, on the other hand, refers to the interior headliner that one can see from inside the bus (which Riviera directly glued to the bottom of the “roof”).



1) Roof Removal: We began by removing the roof itself (canvas had already been removed). We were only two people, so we went about that a bit unconventionally - we popped the top and propped the roof up on buckets/ladders while we removed the five X-popping-mechanisms one at a time (springs included). After removing all of them and our makeshift roof-jackstands, we slid the roof backwards down a ladder leaned against the rear of the tintop. Wow, more people would have made this job SO much easier! I highly recommend splurging for a few rounds of beer to attract friends for this project.

Roof Hardware: We kept all our old hardware (but I would recommend replacing all bolts and nuts with stainless steel, if possible). Because we were crunching for time, we got replacement springs (sold at Lowes: 1” x 7” x .135” (the diameter is the really important number there); you need to connect two together) but did not install them yet. That will be a project for “later”. After inspecting each of the X-mechanism rollers (there are 10: 2 per X), we decided we wanted to replace two of them due to cracked wheels. We got two new replacements from Country Homes Campers (https://countryhomescampers.com/shop/replacement-bearings-for-your-pop-top/ ) and installed them in the rear (non-springed) X. They are a tad bit looser/wobblier than the originals, but they work!

2) Removing Upper Wooden Frame: Once the roof was off, we propped it on sawhorses in the driveway while we contemplated our next moves. After a lot of research, and a very nice and helpful contact at Country Homes Campers (their company used to put Rivi-like roofs on Vanagons and know the ins and outs of roof repair), we turned it over and removed the wood on the interior/underside of the roof.

The wooden frame is held onto the roof via glue and a thin layer of fiberglass. This involved 1) slowly sliding a chisel between the wood (and ceiling) and the roof with persuasion help from a rubber mallet and 2) ripping out the ceiling in chunks. That part was actually quite fun. As per the advice I got from Country Homes Campers, “Either the ceiling has to go during a rebuild, or the roof does.” We chose the ceiling. Considering the whole point was restoring the roof, we didn’t mind replacing the ceiling.

2.5) Lower Wooden Frame: We decided not to restore or remove this, as it seemed in pretty good condition and not worth the effort. The lower frame is held on via screws and rivets, directly to the tintop. It also has butyl tape between tin and wood/metal rails for extra strength and sealant. To remove this, you need access to the underside of the tintop (beneath the rear headliner) and must also remove the metal rails (riveted to tin top). We basically just cleaned the remaining mud off our the wood frame and varnished it numerous times before reinstalling the poptop.

3) Reinforcing fiberglass: After removing the wooden frame and ceiling, we only really had the fiberglass left on the roof. We bought some fiberglassing materials, learned how to do it, and reinforced the parts we thought we needed to (parts with hairline cracks, for example). We then fiberglassed in small, 1/8” metal plates to the sides of the poptop in the spots where we will be mounting our roof rack for extra strength.

The fiberglass materials necessary were:
-fiberglass mat (much easier to work with than fiberglass cloth, btw)
-resin
-hardener (all available from Bondo)
-Goggles, rubber gloves, and a painting suit
-disposable paintbrushes and mixing cups

We found these links helpful for beginner’s fiberglassing:
https://www.wikihow.com/Fiberglass
https://www.wikihow.com/Repair-Fiberglass-Finishings-on-Boats,-Cars-and-other-Objects
https://hamiltonsrv.com/blog/fixing-fiberglass-cracks-keeping-fiberglass-solid/

4) Installing New Wooden Upper Frame: Next, we cut and varnished a new wooden frame and installed it. We glued it down with Sikaflex Marine Adhesive (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000Y87KZG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), which worked excellently! I would recommend drilling the necessary pop-top-hardware-holes in the wood before installation. We also glued down a number of small wooden blocks to the underside of the fiberglass to hold the new ceiling in (more on that shortly). We subsequently fiberglassed around the edges where the wooden frame meets the roof for stability.

5) Roof Fan Installation: This part was specific to our vehicle, so you may want to skip to #6, but…

Our next step was the scariest - installing our new badass Maxxair 5100K roof fan and, specifically, cutting a big hole for it. Big Emma is an overlanding vehicle that we periodically live in, so good ventilation is a godsend. We figured if we were going to remove the roof, we might as well do this too.

We cut the hole from above. We started by drilling a hole at each corner of our fan hole before joining them with the jigsaw. My research on cutting fiberglass told me to use a diamond- or metal-coated blade that cuts on the upstroke. Check. The finished hole was a lot less scary than I thought it would be. We installed the fan frame (the fan gets installed once the roof is back on the Bus) with more marine adhesive and screws, making sure that we sealed all parts around it. Considering we had to install it over one of those Rivi-top “dips” in the fiberglass, we had to be pretty careful with this.

6) Installing the Ceiling: We turned the roof back over (belly-up) and installed the ceiling. We used 1/8" luan plywood typically used as underlayment for vinyl tile flooring and pre-finished on one side for moisture resistance - however, I think you could use pretty much anything that is relatively light and thin. Instead of gluing our ceiling in under the wooden frame like Riviera did, we opted for a removable method. Using the wooden blocks we had glued to the underside of the roof, we screwed it down. When we are completely done, we will add some trim around the edges (between the edge of the ceiling and the wooden frame that the canvas will attach to) to make that look nice and neat Before final installation, we also cut two holes for lights up there and wired them in.

7) Paint: We painted everything with white marine boat paint - the same paint we use to paint the outside of the roof. We went for this because it was light-colored, really water-resistant (excellent against the condensation that likes to collect on the ceiling while camping), and just looked nicer.

8 ) Roof ReInstallation: With the help of a third (tall!) person, we did the reverse of removal and got the top back on. We attached all the Xs first, then each OLD spring. To attach the old springs, one of us sat in the front tup and pulled on it with a long string while the other directed the hook into the appropriate slot. Went super quick and worked like a charm.

9) Roof Rack and Solar Installation: This is also specific to our vehicle. We then drilled the holes (through the fiberglass, reinforced with those thin metal plates from #3) to attach our roof rack and installed that. It holds our two 100-Watt solar panels, mounted behind our new roof fan. Unfortunately, this means we can’t currently lift the roof, as we haven’t yet replaced the springs. However, we are also working on installing hydraulic struts to help us with this problem, something we have also wanted for a long time. When we get that project done (successfully!) I will post and update here about how we did it. We also installed the roof fan and absolutely love it so far.

I hope our experience can help others through their own roof-odyssey! I sure am glad this project’s over with!

On to the next one!

Greetings,
Emma, Sven, Andrew, and Big Emma
_________________
1975 Bus "Big Emma", 1.8 FI, Hydraulic lifters
Interrupting our Pan-American Roadtrip for post-flood repairs: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=657738
Follow the trip on our blog: http://www.gobigemma.com

[Hikelite]

nice write up Emma. Thanks

I'm going to be starting a refresh of my westy top soon, and found this informative. Especially the links.
_________________
~Kevin

My 1968 Campmobile

[alman72]

good thinking on the ladder slide. My top got dropped when my help wimped out.
Putting it on was better. I put 2 6ft 2x4s under it for good hand holds and had it walked into my garage. Then I used ratcheting tie downs to lift that sucker to the rafters. then I drove the bus under it!

[GoBigEmma]

[gabbs]

Thank you so much for this! I'm putting a riviera top from a 77 onto a 69 former westy. I have been a little overwhelmed with going about rebuilding the top. You guys are great!
_________________
Bay Pride!
Openly bay, cuz it's ok to like what ya like
Babes in buses rule!
Omaha VW Club Secretary
Love, Peace, VW grease

[GoBigEmma]

[GoBigEmma]

Hello Rivi-Roof-Enthusiasts!

As promised, here the update on the struts I mentioned in the previous post.

I am proud to say that we successfully managed to add the hydraulic struts we have been wanting for ages! Now, everybody in our Bus crew can lift our poptop. They also proved to be productive for keeping the top raised (a problem we had on our last trip before the roof refurbish) and general stability.

This project was definitely tricky. While adding hydraulic struts seems to be a common project for Westys, we could not find an accurate example for a full-length Rivi top to go on. This project took a lot of mental sweat, confused pondering, experimenting, experimenting again, ordering the wrong parts and sending them back, and lots of other semi-confusing steps. Hopefully our confusion, however, will lead to others’ success!


Here a breakdown of the steps and important information:

1) Struts — Force: The first thing we had to do was figure out how much our poptop weighed. We did this by measuring our weight and then putting the scale in the Bus while lifting the top (part-way, so that all the weight is on the lifter rather than the springs) and measuring again(subtracting weight-of-lifter from weight-of-lifting-top). Because we had reinforced the fiberglass, the top weighed about 40 lbs. Add our solar and roof rack, we were at about 90 lbs.

This is very important for this project. Struts come with a force rating (aka how much they can lift). If the force rating is to weak, the lifts might be useless or sink when fully extended. If too strong, you run the risk of not being able to lower the top again once popped, or straining the whole construction as the struts put constant upward pressure on the top. We also learned that the struts’ force is NOT accumulative.

We ended up going for these 81-lb-force struts:

https://www.austinhardware.com/genesis-gas-spring-35-827-in-extended-81-lb-force.html

2) Struts — Length: The second component to these was extended and compressed lengths. This was the really mind-fuck part of the process, because we had to make sure our minimum and maximum lengths worked and that the struts would be fine to compress and extend between them, geometry-wise. Unfortunately, I was never very good at geometry :/

We realized pretty early that they would need to extend pretty long to work at all between the 22” gap between lower and upper wooden poptop frame when popped. In the end, we figured out that the above struts would fit in both positions and crossed our fingers that all would go well in between:

Compressed length: 20.327”
Extended length: 35.827”

3) Ball Studs: Each strut is attached via a 13mm ball stud. For the top, we drilled a hole through the upper wooden frame and screwed them into a receiving end. For the bottom, we got ball stud angles and attached them to the appropriate spot on the top of the bunk.

https://www.liftsupportsdepot.com/13-bg-ball-stud-13mm-1-2-3-bolt-hd-bracket-s304-stainless/
https://www.liftsupportsdepot.com/13aa-ball-stud-13mm-1-2-5-16-x-18-s316-stainless/

This does mean, unfortunately, sacrificing a tiny bit of upper bunk width, but it was a sacrifice we were willing to make.

4) Placement: We would have greatly preferred to attach these to the outside of the poptop, both for aesthetic purposes and for maximum comfort of upper-bunk-guests. However, due to the placement of the metal rails of lower poptop frame, the proximity of the Xs on each side of the poptop, and the boards that would be necessary for making the fold-out part of the upper bunk work, this was really the only spot that worked, and we have made our peace with it.

If you are attempting to do this project on a short Rivi or similar top, this placement tip for placement from Country Homes Campers was also very useful, even if it didn’t fit our model:

https://countryhomescampers.com/what-to-do-about-weak-pop-top-springs/

5) Installment: One cannot (and is specifically instructed not to) compress the struts by hand, as that is quite a lot of force for a human (or a ratchet-strap…..just so you know….). They should be installed fully-extended like they come. The stroke (the skinny half of the strut) should face downwards to ensure maximum long-term lubrication.

First we attached the ball studs and ball stud brackets to the struts. That is fortunately very easy, they just pop right in. They also, equally fortunately, pop right back out as well

Next, we popped the top as high as possible and braced it with some buckets.

We then attached the ball stud brackets in the correct positions on the upper bunk board. Because then everything is in the theoretically-correct extended position, we knew where to drill holes to attach the top part to the upper wooden frame. We then screwed those in with a bit of top-wiggling to get the exact angle right.

6) Go time: We then….took out the buckets. The top stayed thoroughly popped, already practically a Christmas miracle. Tiny skinny me then pulled down the top with ease, popped it back up, and everything went exactly according to plan. We then cheered a bunch and subsequently lifted the top up and down a number of times for fun

Cheers Sambaverse, we hope our experiences in hydraulic struts can be helpful to those in the future!

-Emma, Sven, Andrew, and Big Emma
_________________
1975 Bus "Big Emma", 1.8 FI, Hydraulic lifters
Interrupting our Pan-American Roadtrip for post-flood repairs: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=657738
Follow the trip on our blog: http://www.gobigemma.com

[Smiro]

Looks great! I like the wood ceiling and the improvements. Take a look here for another way to mount the lifting struts: https://countryhomescampers.com/what-to-do-about-weak-pop-top-springs/

Looking forward to more pictures.

Cheers,