long input shaft with a short snout for 091 transmission?

[DrElch]

I'm basing my question on the following thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8147746#8147746

In this Thread two shafts are mentioned: The long and short one. With the short one being 287mm and the long one 298mm.

Today I have looked at the two shafts I have available and I realized that I have one even shorter than 287mm. This shaft is from an early CA Transmission, while the longer one is from a CU Transmission that was delivered by VW as a strange 002/091 hybrid. Where the Main body is from the 002, while the rest of it is from the 091.

I've tried to mate the alledged 091 clutch casing with my '79 2.0 CU-Engine, but the 287mm shaft seems to be too long and hits the end of the pilot bearing.

I have to look into this more carefully, but I'm at my wits end for the moment as this whole shaft situation is quite confusing.

So let's start with the obvious question. What kind of shaft is that really short one? I assume it belongs to a Type 1. Did they have shorter shafts in the very early days?

And what is the right shaft to be used with a 091 clutch housing and a CU Engine?

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The differences in the 002 287mm shaft, and the 091 298mm one are in the spline area rearward to the end that engages the pilot bearing. The shorter shaft you have pictured is a Type 1 Beetle shaft. For an 091 trans with a factory 79 engine, it should have the long 298mm shaft. If you’re having issues with the shorter shaft bottoming out in the crank pilot bearing, not allowing the engine to be fully seated in the trans, that’s where I would start looking. I once came across an improperly machined Type 1 gland nut that did not have the bearing seated deep enough, and the spline area of the shaft was bottoming out on it.

[Wildthings]

Both an 002 or an 091 with either the early or late bellhousing take the same shaft when used with a Type 4 engine. The bellhousings are shaped a bit differently (to allow for the 228mm clutch on late models) but aren't much different in depth.

Are you sure you don't need to rotate the pilot shaft a bit to get the splines to align? Put the tranny in high gear and either spin one of the wheels as you push the engine into place or while putting forward pressure on the engine turn the crank a bit. If you don't have the engine well aligned with the tranny they will not mate, the space between the engine flange and the bellhousing needs to be the same all the way around for the engine to slide fully home.

[sodbuster]

[DrElch]

Okay, maybe there are some pieces missing in my story.
I have scored the transmission in the picture. It has the "CU" code on it but it looks like a 002 transmission.
In fact all parts are 002 APART from the clutch housing.
That one is 091.

Here look at the following two pictures

And the input shaft was the aforementioned long one which is also 002?

The PO said this transmission has never been apart and it definitely looked like it never has been. What did Volkswagen do in the mid 70ies?

Update: According to the specs a CU was mounted on a 1600 engine. Does it still take a SR87 starter? Does this explain this strange configuration?

[Wildthings]

Your rig is over 40 years old, so there is very little chance the PO knows its history all the well. The bellhousing fits with your model year but the 002 part number does not.

I can not see your nose cone that well from the picture, but the stock 002 nose cone will cause the shift lever to be out of position towards the front and maybe hitting the dash unless the shift rod has been lengthened by 1/2" (12mm) or so.

[SGKent]

SodBuster built VW transmissions for a long time. I personally would accept his word as fact just because of his experience. I learned this when rebuilding my 091.

BTW if you don't have the proper jigs and tools your rebuild will not be successful. Also, use a finer grade glass bead when you clean things. That looks almost like broken glass was used. If so it embeds in the items being cleaned if that are softer metals like aluminum.
_________________
Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).

George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."

Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"

[DrElch]

[SGKent]

[DrElch]

[Wildthings]

The Bus Type 4 engine takes a longer input shaft than the Type 1 when used with the same tranny. I don't have a transmission available to me to measure, but I suspect yours is correct for a Bus Type 4 or even too short, your splines look correct. On a Porsche Type 4 I believe the pilot bearing fits into the flywheel instead of the crank, and I know it is this way on at least some Type 4 industrial engines, so if you have something besides the Bus flywheel that might be your problem, but I really doubt it, AFAIK the 228 clutch assembly is '76 and later Bus only.

I have an 002 Tranny with a 091 bellhousing and a 091 nose cone mated to my Type 4 engine using the standard long 72-83 input shaft and it works just fine. Everything aligns perfectly.

[SGKent]

buy a used 091 bell housing, hang it properly with the cross member style transmission hanger, put in the correct input shaft, and be done with it. You can get the used parts here: https://weddleindustries.com/products/1000296
_________________
Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).

George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."

Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"

[sodbuster]

[jhax]

Hello,

I am wondering if it is the 298mm input shaft that will work with the 15* T2C watercooled engine. Is there a part number available for said input shaft? Does anyone know if the input shaft from a German 1.6TD will work with the 15* setup?

Thank you,
Justin