GoWesty 2450 timing suggestions...

[minah]

I have a recently installed GW2450 engine. GW recommends 35* BTDC @ 3000 rpms. I've searched a few threads and found some reputable members that recommend 40* including 10Cent.

I would like some more opinions on what you would time a GW2450 engine at. Most importantly I live and do 99% of my driving at or above 6000ft.

Stock EFI
9.4 to 1 compression
Auto transmission
Running 91 octane (not to derail the thread, just for the mountain climbs)

Thanks!
Minah
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'91 Westy - 'Galaxy'
'74 Super Beetle - 'Bee'
'78 Beetle Champagne II - 'Komet' - Killed by hail storm Summer 2020 RIP

[mikemtnbike]

My recommendation would be to follow GW's directions, or tell them you're not before you do. Hate saying this but don't want to give anyone a reason to not honor a warranty.
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual

[Howesight]

I suggest that you buy and install the J&S Safeguard knock control system, and then adjust base timing to 40 degrees advance. Even at the lower air density at altitude, it only takes one bad tank of gas to ruin your expensive engine.

Here is a link: http://www.jandssafeguard.com/NewUniversal/UniversalVersion.html


I still cannot understand why GoWesty does not recommend installing these on all their larger engines.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[MarkWard]

You can run some more timing until the engine begins to ping or knock. Problem is, not everyone can hear it.

Another option would be to find an uphill grade where you can climb and safely shutoff the engine and pull over to a stop. Remove a sparkplug and examine it.

I'm sure if you search you can find images of sparkplug tips of engines that are detonating. The combination of Super Unleaded along with your reasonable compression is what will allow you to run more timing advance.

[Igeo]

[Igeo]

This is a good one. Look for references to pre-ignition. https://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/how-to-read-plugs.html
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1987 Westfalia 2.1 WBX Manual

[DanHoug]

for warranty purposes, i'd run it at what they want. after warranty, i'd tune it to what the engine wants.

true TUNING of an engine includes playing with timing for optimum results, not just blind setting to spec, which is a compromise to protect people driving with their head up their ass. i find the process rewarding as you usually can optimize timing for YOUR engine and situation and gain improvement.

that said, i've advanced timing on my stock 2.1 to the point where it fights the starter and performance deteriorates and could not hear knocking, even with the engine cover off. i run at 40 as more doesn't seem to get any additional performance increase and with less i can feel deterioration.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[MarkWard]

When we tune on the dyno, we start with mild total advance. Once we get the fuel curve decent, we’ll start adding timing to the point we don’t see any gain or even a little drop off. We then back it off a couple degrees. A distributor doesn’t give you many options for tuning the curve.

[DanHoug]

[minah]

I just don't understand why I would use the same fuel grade and time the engine the same as if I were at sea level. Wouldn't I just be leaving performance and fuel economy on the table?
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'91 Westy - 'Galaxy'
'74 Super Beetle - 'Bee'
'78 Beetle Champagne II - 'Komet' - Killed by hail storm Summer 2020 RIP

[Wildthings]

Running at elevation is like running at part throttle at sea level. At part throttle you can handle a bit more timing than at full throttle. The old rule was add an extra degree of timing for every thousand feet above sea level, but this was for dual advance distributors and may not work as well for a setup with electronic advance as per Digifant.

Even with my Digijet system which does have a dual advance distributor I have not found it necessary to advance the timing when driving through Eastern California and through Nevada with passes up to 8000' or so. Both the 1.9L and now 2.1L engines I have had in my 83 1/2 lose very little power going up to 8000' without making any timing changes.

The WBXer combustion chamber design is quite knock resistant. Don't know what GW does to their engines, but assuming they keep the deck tight, I would presume their engines would still have good knock resistance.

[Igeo]

I hear you, but think the comments to time it as Go Westy suggests is to protect the warranty. If it were me, I personally would tune it to then 6,000 ft. elevation if I lived there. If I planned a trip to lower elevations, I'd retard to spec or close to it. Maybe put reference marks on the distributor and the case to make it easy. After reading Wildthings comment (above), it may not even be neccessary.
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1987 Westfalia 2.1 WBX Manual