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Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific??
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:21 pm    Post subject: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific?? Reply with quote

Go ahead and shit all over me for either not using the Search Engine or not knowing the answer to this question... I did try the Search Engine, and also looked in the Photo Gallery and the Classifieds because those are often good sources of information.

I am probably not using the right keywords. Anyway... what application is exhaust header A meant for?

Header B fits the 2.0 Type 4 engine. By the way, they are both oval port.

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Last edited by Wasted youth on Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Hoody
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust headers question Reply with quote

They are both for the 75-78 type 4 exhaust. There is a right and a left side. You cannot use two lefts or two rights. I had a parts seller on here try to tell me he's been doing this for 40 years and this is the first time he had ever heard of such a thing. Rolling Eyes
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust headers question Reply with quote

What Bob said.

one left one right, look at the flanges. Oval port with tin. Scarce with tin. I have one NOS one and looking for the other side. Probably none exist anywhere in the world - been looking for 11 years.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust headers question Reply with quote

Thanks. It’s all coming back to me now. Absolutely... a left and a right side. The long side is on the Passenger side of the engine.

But... what if you moved the heads around. Or matched up two heads that used just one style. I imagine the exhaust nomenclature would be crooked.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust headers question Reply with quote

Yes, the manifolds will fit the heads fine but will not be able to mate to the 'afterburner' u shaped pipes.

I had a lot of trouble with cracked headers. I took a video of leak testing one that looked perfect. I taped up the ports, sprayed washing detergent on the harder and reversed the output of my shopvac to see if they leaked. All the used ones I bought leaked.



Link

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific Reply with quote

I have a headache.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific Reply with quote

If I am not mistaken those can be tig welded where they are leaking. That is where the stainless meets the regular steel. They are only junk when the stainless part of the pipe cracks. Because as most people who weld know welding stainless that is cracked is pretty much pointless. I had Scott at GS rebuild my f pipes and u pipes with new laser cut flanges and they are as good as new. Actually better than new because they are also ceramic coated externally as well as internally. No more tins and I am confident the coating of both sides of the pipe will yield less heat than the original asbestos and sheet metal did.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
I have a headache.


Ha! Well, don’t get too concerned. I am not advocating any ulterior exhaust header motives. But the comment above about ‘...been doing this for years and never saw such a thing’ may indicate someone figured out how to play games mixing and matching cylinder heads and exhaust headers.

And three bolt flanges that don’t line up simply get cut off, clocked right and welded back up. After all, the three bolt flange gaskets in that neck of the woods are all the same.
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Xevin
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust headers question Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
Probably none exist anywhere in the world - been looking for 11 years.


Probably in Notchboy’s garage next to the poo pails and 12v vacuum accessories Very Happy my bad, next to the intermittent wiper assemblies and headlight washers Wink
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific Reply with quote

To add to the confusion, take a look at the photos from this ad for a 1977 bus exhaust system (ad dated Jan 24, 2018 and renewed this month) from Chris Morrice; note how BOTH exhaust headers have the deep flange.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/7752937.jpg

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/7752939.jpg

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/7752939.jpg

And here is another ad from 1584man in the Classifieds showing basically the same thing; both sides have the deep flanges:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/7823834.jpg

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/7823846.jpg

Arrow The 2.0 engine I am working on requires one deep flange and one flush flange (left and right side). I do not know the history of this engine, except that is was poorly maintained (gee, no shit, right?) The air box number begins with GD but it has hydraulic cam followers and it's in a model year 1978 and should be a GE engine. Frankenmotor?

The seller bryan wilson advertises this piece as the Right Side for model years 1975-1978:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/7972484.jpg

And he also shows these all for model years 1975-1978 yet there is not a single flush flange in the bunch. All deep flanges:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/6833105.jpg

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/6833104.jpg

Exclamation Hopefully tomorrow I can post a photo of one each of the different cylinder heads in my stash. I think I have one that is deep and one that is shallow. Both for a 2.0
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific?? Reply with quote

If you need a flush flange it's because somebody threw a square port head on one side and then cut the ends of the header to fit. Nothing from the VW factory 1978 and prior came that way. Common for disreputable engine builders to build the engine with whatever they have laying around including mix-and-matching oval and square port heads.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific?? Reply with quote

WhirledTraveller wrote:
If you need a flush flange it's because somebody threw a square port head on one side and then cut the ends of the header to fit. Nothing from the VW factory 1978 and prior came that way. Common for disreputable engine builders to build the engine with whatever they have laying around including mix-and-matching oval and square port heads.


So no Right and Left headers?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific?? Reply with quote

Wasted youth wrote:


So no Right and Left headers?


The left and right headers are different but they have the same type of flange. They're just bent and angled a little differently so you can't bolt a left header to a right head because it won't fit correctly.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific?? Reply with quote

Yes I just realized that top one has been modified. Someone chopped the top of it off as stated to work with a square port head. I did not see that before. Whoops.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific?? Reply with quote

Confirmed today the oval port head I have requires deeper exhaust header B and the shallow port head I have is square port, so I agree that header A in my picture is a modified oval port exhaust header made to fit the square port cylinder head. Square port exhaust gasket allows oval exhaust header to seal.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific?? Reply with quote

Wasted youth wrote:
Confirmed today the oval port head I have requires deeper exhaust header B and the shallow port head I have is square port, so I agree that header A in my picture is a modified oval port exhaust header made to fit the square port cylinder head. Square port exhaust gasket allows oval exhaust header to seal.



Oh the jokes I could have displayed here. Rolling Eyes Alas another day................



Xevin wrote:
SGKent wrote:
Probably none exist anywhere in the world - been looking for 11 years.


Probably in Notchboy’s garage next to the poo pails and 12v vacuum accessories Very Happy my bad, next to the intermittent wiper assemblies and headlight washers Wink

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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific?? Reply with quote

Oh, I know! All kinds of lead-ins! Razz
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific?? Reply with quote

If Notchboy or anyone else has a NOS Manifold F-pipe 021-251-551 he should PM me because I have a NOS 021-251-552.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific?? Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
If Notchboy or anyone else has a NOS Manifold F-pipe 021-251-551 he should PM me because I have a NOS 021-251-552.



Nope. But I do have a water pump for a 64 bug. Wink Was it Xevin that needed muffler bearings? I have those in a box with my Okrasa engine kits and NOS 1958 Westfalia side tents. Yes tents. I cut back and sold two, now I only have three left. Wink
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t3kg wrote:

OK, this thread is over. You win.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: Type 4 exhaust header differences - side specific?? Reply with quote

notchboy wrote:
SGKent wrote:
If Notchboy or anyone else has a NOS Manifold F-pipe 021-251-551 he should PM me because I have a NOS 021-251-552.



Nope. But I do have a water pump for a 64 bug. Wink Was it Xevin that needed muffler bearings? I have those in a box with my Okrasa engine kits and NOS 1958 Westfalia side tents. Yes tents. I cut back and sold two, now I only have three left. Wink


That is quite frugal. If you sell the thread separately you might be able to get 4, even 5 more out of what you have left. Wink
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