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Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab?
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ronjonlasvegas
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:00 am    Post subject: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

I saw this discussion on FB yesterday and no one knew the answer so I thought I would try here. Does anyone know of an earlier (non Binz) double cab than this one built October 17, 1958? They real early production doubles had belly pans and were still coded as a type 261 instead of type 265.

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I am not the owner of this truck, it is owned by mr white, but I thought I would start this thread to see if anyone knows of an older one that was not built by Binz?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

According to thesamba the 1st DC was built `November 58

404 236 - Nov. 3 - Double Cab begins (M16)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

I know of an early double cab coded as a single that a friend has. No idea of the production date though.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

Dustin B wrote:
I know of an early double cab coded as a single that a friend has. No idea of the production date though.


Ask your friend to take a picture of his M-code plate and text it to you and then post it up. I would love to see it. Do you know if your friends truck has belly pans? I think these were only in the first month of so of production.

Jason White posted on the original FB post that according to literature the oldest he knows about was built 10/7/1958 and is #397289.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

Another thing I noticed from the source that mentioned the first double cab being 397289 stated that double cab production transferred to the Hannover factory in Nov 1958. Where did it transfer from?? I will order a birth certificate, maybe it well tell us more?
I have looked at pictures of another early belly pan double cab. It is on the west coast some place. Iím thinking that Nov 58 trucks made at Hannover do not have belly pans. My October 58 truck has a flatter roof then say my Sept 59. You can fit your thumb in the front gutter. Also wood bracing in the roof borders.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

Dustin B wrote:
I know of an early double cab coded as a single that a friend has. No idea of the production date though.

Is it model 261 also with M16? That is the designation of doublecabs before they became model 265.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

Here is another one that was built in 1958, but is not as old as the first one.
DeadEndVW wrote:
Not a binz, but it was damn close.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


M coded single cab, that should have gone to Binz.

15 Dec. 58
16- Binz
18- unknown, possible color change of center brake light
20- MPH Speedometer
90- Safety glass
163- unknown
176- Over riders
UL- St Louis
261- Single Cab
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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**Wanted, original paint Postal yellow ashtray, rear apron & 59-65 deck lid. **
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

Were any of the first ones pressed bumper?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

Braukuche wrote:
Were any of the first ones pressed bumper?


I do not know if any survived, but Everett posted a picture of one from August 1958 with silver white pressed bumpers.

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**Wanted, original paint Postal yellow ashtray, rear apron & 59-65 deck lid. **
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

ronjonlasvegas wrote:
Braukuche wrote:
Were any of the first ones pressed bumper?


I do not know if any survived, but Everett posted a picture of one from August 1958 with silver white pressed bumpers.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Semaphores too, that would be a cool truck to own
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
ronjonlasvegas wrote:
Braukuche wrote:
Were any of the first ones pressed bumper?


I do not know if any survived, but Everett posted a picture of one from August 1958 with silver white pressed bumpers.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Semaphores too, that would be a cool truck to own


Surprised no ones fabbed one up like that.
That would be the Holy Grail of DCs for sure.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

Mine has low taillights and slash bumpers. I saw this pic sometime ago with this semaphored stunner. However I am wondering why we only see all pre October trucks as Binz? Production figures that state October 58 was the month first produced as VW with double cab is confusing if this truck was really August of 58? It should not be as VW but instead should be as a Binz if in August of 58. Does anyone have any insight or detailed documentation proving this is August of 58? Fun learning this stuff!

Is it possible this double cab pictured with semaphores is Australian? Australian buses and trucks had pressed bumpers up to May 1959. This would explain semaphores and pressed bumpers.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

mr white wrote:
Is it possible this double cab pictured with semaphores is Australian? Australian buses and trucks had pressed bumpers up to May 1959. This would explain semaphores and pressed bumpers.

Australia cars are RHD so I would say No as it has a LHD rear door.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:21 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

mr white wrote:
Mine has low taillights and slash bumpers. I saw this pic sometime ago with this semaphored stunner. However I am wondering why we only see all pre October trucks as Binz? Production figures that state October 58 was the month first produced as VW with double cab is confusing if this truck was really August of 58? It should not be as VW but instead should be as a Binz if in August of 58. Does anyone have any insight or detailed documentation proving this is August of 58? Fun learning this stuff!

Is it possible this double cab pictured with semaphores is Australian? Australian buses and trucks had pressed bumpers up to May 1959. This would explain semaphores and pressed bumpers.


August 1958 was a transition for VW, they used up the stock of the pressed bumpers they had and painted them silver white. Previously all pressed bumpers were painted the same colors as the bus.
According to 'VW Transporter and microbus, Specification guide 1950-1967' it says '29.8.58 , 384 816 , Stronger design rear bumper, no hole for starting handle' So this means at #384816 on 8/29/1958 VW stopped using the pressed bumpers. There is a whole thread dedicated to the August 1958 buses as they are very recognizable with the all white pressed bumpers. Here is a link to that thread.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Maybe your all October 1958 and earlier double cabs were like a pre-production version that was sent to sit in the dealership showroom to get people excited about the launch of the new VW built double cab? This is just speculation on my part, but I know car makers do this. You can go to a local Chevy dealer in my town now to get a sneak preview of the mid engine 2020 corvette now.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

ronjonlasvegas wrote:

August 1958 was a transition for VW, they used up the stock of the pressed bumpers they had and...

I don't really buy the 'using up stock' idea. VW made changes too often for this to hold much sway. They just seemed to change things when they changed things.

Quote:
According to 'VW Transporter and microbus, Specification guide 1950-1967' it says '29.8.58 , 384 816 , Stronger design rear bumper, no hole for starting handle' So this means at #384816 on 8/29/1958 VW stopped using the pressed bumpers. There is a whole thread dedicated to the August 1958 buses as they are very recognizable with the all white pressed bumpers. Here is a link to that thread.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Maybe your all October 1958 and earlier double cabs were like a pre-production version that was sent to sit in the dealership showroom to get people excited about the launch of the new VW built double cab? This is just speculation on my part, but I know car makers do this. You can go to a local Chevy dealer in my town now to get a sneak preview of the mid engine 2020 corvette now.


There is a brouchure with a turkis / blue white flipseat bus with high hinges. That colour came out in April 61, and high hinges ended October 1960. I have not heard of anyone finding a flipseat earlier than March 1961. There are also some differences in the brouchure campers to buses I've actually seen.
It looks to me like a pre-production bus in the shortly to be released more modern colours.
Yes, that pressed bumper DC could be similar. Maybe that is a brouchure or advertising picture.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

ronjonlasvegas wrote:
mr white wrote:
Mine has low taillights and slash bumpers. I saw this pic sometime ago with this semaphored stunner. However I am wondering why we only see all pre October trucks as Binz? Production figures that state October 58 was the month first produced as VW with double cab is confusing if this truck was really August of 58? It should not be as VW but instead should be as a Binz if in August of 58. Does anyone have any insight or detailed documentation proving this is August of 58? Fun learning this stuff!

Is it possible this double cab pictured with semaphores is Australian? Australian buses and trucks had pressed bumpers up to May 1959. This would explain semaphores and pressed bumpers.


August 1958 was a transition for VW, they used up the stock of the pressed bumpers they had and painted them silver white. Previously all pressed bumpers were painted the same colors as the bus.
According to 'VW Transporter and microbus, Specification guide 1950-1967' it says '29.8.58 , 384 816 , Stronger design rear bumper, no hole for starting handle' So this means at #384816 on 8/29/1958 VW stopped using the pressed bumpers. There is a whole thread dedicated to the August 1958 buses as they are very recognizable with the all white pressed bumpers. Here is a link to that thread.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Maybe your all October 1958 and earlier double cabs were like a pre-production version that was sent to sit in the dealership showroom to get people excited about the launch of the new VW built double cab? This is just speculation on my part, but I know car makers do this. You can go to a local Chevy dealer in my town now to get a sneak preview of the mid engine 2020 corvette now.


That's odd about the no hole in the apron for crank start cause they continued with the 36hp into the 59 model years until they switched to the Bastard. I know there was a slash bumpe sepcific crank handle for these buses.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

So if Clara is right about the October end of high hinges,my 9/30/60 panel was on the last day for high hinges...right? Confused
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

Busted-bolt wrote:
So if Clara is right about the October end of high hinges,my 9/30/60 panel was on the last day for high hinges...right? Confused

My 10/20/1960 still has high hinges.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

EmpiGT wrote:
Busted-bolt wrote:
So if Clara is right about the October end of high hinges,my 9/30/60 panel was on the last day for high hinges...right? Confused
My 10/20/1960 still has high hinges.
High hinges change to low hinges in late december 1960.

I think that pressed bumper DC is probably one of the pre-production models when VW was working out the assembly of a bunch of new panels. Then get publicity photos of the new VW factory truck.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Earliest (Non Binz) factory made double cab? Reply with quote

I am not sold yet on that truck being made before October 58. Need more info. 397452 features: slash bumpers, crank start rear apron, original to the truck bus pop out windows (not bd- early dc type) seamed roof and gates, 36hp with split case, belly pans, no interior rear view mirror, only drivers side exterior mirror, (cab area pressings slightly different than my 9/59 truck) flatter profile roof with wider gutter areas. Iím sure Iím forgetting other tid bits. We may do a thread in 2020 after the pre A build.
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