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1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:47 am    Post subject: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

So many build threads on the samba... and People say how fast their new engine is, but it would be nice if more could get some video of some runs with their newly built Samba-assisted build. Not only does it give proof of what a given engine can do in a given car, but it inspires others to finish their build and know what to look forward to.

Even with dyno numbers, the great equalizer is the track itself. So heres my example of what my recent mild stroker build was able to do the first time out last Wednesday night at the street legal fun drags on some timed runs.

My 2234 that I changed pistons and made a 2332 and 160hp, in a stock 60 bug, street tires. This engine is not a race engine, I built it to be the best daily driver engine, with only .491 lift for long valve train life and beehive springs that are soft on everything, Mofoco heads that are not race heads, but maximized for the combo. Its NOT impressive like your guys 11-12 second race engines, its just a nice example of what a mild combo can do.

Best run was [email protected] At the 1,000ft mark the little holley clicker fuel pump, and the stock fuel line cant keep up, and the engine is starving of fuel like clockwork each run for the last 200-320ft of track. One run was [email protected] when it struggled the worst. Once in 4th gear, the longest stretch with no more gear changes and high rpms's runs the bowls low and the engine stops pulling. The trans has a weddle 3rd and 4th that are close, and this doesn't help, as the gearing was set up for high strung 7k+ shifts, not 6k shifts. This engine has so much torque, it would like a normal 3rd/4th much better. Never the less, a larger fuel pump and larger fuel line I could at least finish the full 1/4 mile and get 12.85's as is.

I used 2 in-car cams, and my buddy filming from the stands to put together a nice experience. Surprisingly, the little Sony HDR-AS series action camera got better picture and sound then my larger JVC Everio HD, so I used it in the video only. (1 Sony action cam from in car, and another Sony action cam from my buddy in stands)
Squeezed the most action in 3.5 minutes as I could:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiRQBmgKknY

At the track, even though this is a daily driver engine, it was interesting to see the reactions. People were surprised to see a street bug run faster then a lot of high dollar stuff.

And the engine build thread for this engine(only difference being I changed to the 94's vs 92tw) https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716391&highlight=
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buguy
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

That was awesome! Thanks for doing all that! And I have a lot of respect for the way you laid it all out for the world to see (and criticise). Doing the tests and the dyno. Props to you! Car sounds great!
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

Whereís the mullet headed emoticon banging his head with the devil horns raised when you need him!

I had to drop idle/main jet sizes on the 67 I now have when I went from a Carter rotary with a 5/16 line that ran out around 700ft. to a Holley Red with a 3/8ís line. It gave the owner at the time a new bunny factor above 6k when we got it jetted.

That is something to look forward to for someone elseís similar build, but not too many are going to pull off 13 second passes ďoff the trailerĒ. There are a lot of teething issues with suspension, and the driveline that most overlook that you have already taken care of.
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

Thanks for putting that together. Awesome stuff.

Do you think you will get more top end with more fuel delivery, or do you think your almost at the top anyway with the modest cam and heads?

I'm definitely not a racer but it sounds like it wants to pull a bit higher before shifting if it wasn't going lean.
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Xevin
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

Iím not a high performance guy. Just not my thing. So impressive what you all can do with ACVW cars. Xatie and I love watching you all at the drags. Super cool. Thanks for posting. Cool thread jpaull.
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rugblaster
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

I enjoyed your video. I'm curious about your reaction times. It looks like your way late. Leave on the last yellow. Normally aspirated VWs just don't have much top end pull. I guess maybe turbo cars do. The car I had would do as good a 60 foot time as anyone, like being shot out of a cannon, but 3rd and 4th was like a Sunday drive. Just the way it is.
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Wreck
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

we had a dyno night at our local 1/8 mile event . I ended up with 170WHP. which for a daily driver that's done 20,000km in the last 2 years is not bad .
the best 1/8 was 8.48 at 82mph ,on street tyres with a stock 215mm Sachs clutch that was slipping ,in a full weight Ghia .

Like Jpaulls it's not huge lift,over stressed engine with a massive price tag. So you don't need to go water cooled to have a reliable quick everyday street VW .

The other good thing is it gets 10.4litres /100km driving in city, stop start and 8.4litres/100km at 110km/h (approx 3600rpm) Very Happy
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TomSimon
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

The car sounds real good, I couldn't hear it laying over at the 1,000ft mark in the video.

Mid-13's is that Goldie Locks zone where it's fast enough to be fun, but not hard on parts, so long as you put the engine together right, which it sounds like you did.

There's a NASA race this weekend at Sacramento, they run along with CMI tomorrow (Sunday 10/20/19). A perfect place to get some more track time with some other air-cooled VW's, a great group of guys and gals Smile
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HotStreetVw
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

Awesome, looked good.
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norris Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

Very cool my friend. Good lookiní young son too.....my dad started taking me to the strip back about 1960 to watch him run his 40 Ford coupe! Wonderful memories.
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Dake
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

Great video. What ring gear you running ?
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qw1cktype1
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

Very cool and thank you for sharing.

I am looking for about the same thing, but with a late model vert, I think I will need to go turbo.
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

Buguy, Thank you!

Gkeeton, Good points on the fuel system. I remember you mentioned that fuel pump upgrade before. I'm hoping to do a similar upgrade soon.
Also, yes, I got a lot of traction things sorted out before going. It has a Kafer bar, traction bar, mid mount, and made this extra funky setup cause wheel hop is a no go:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Pruneman, Thanks! Yes I think it has abit more, one way to find out Very Happy . The cam is modest on the lift simply cause of the 1.3 rockers, it has 321 advertised duration and 271 actual, so its still providing lots of flow for what it is.

Xevin, Thank you! Yeah drag stuff is not for everyone.

Rugblaster, My reaction times suck. I need to work on that. Thankfully, the clock doesn't start till the car passes the line, so I could sit there for 5 mins, and it wouldn't matter. But it does help abit in bracket racing if im trying to stay in my bracket and do better then the other lane.
regarding top end, yes, totally, aircooled always get their gettyup on the first half, however, this engine has a crapload of torque, if I geared it down it would make even the last 300 feet exciting.

Wreck, that is pretty darn cool to have a dyno at the track! That's one fun filled day to be able to drag and dyno on the same day. Impressive numbers too!

TomSimon, Hey I seen that Nasa race advertised too! That's so tempting, unfortunately I used up my fun time and on daddy duty paying back the wife for all the work she did to cover me while I got my car ready just for last Wednesdays fun. The Sacramento Raceway is on borrowed time now, so be it Wednesday night drags, or any other, got to have as much fun there as possible.

Hotstreet, thank you, its nothing like your crazy fast ride, but you might remember a long time ago when you used to be at this point.

Norris, Thanks, and man, 1960, that's crazy! And your still tearing it up in your speedy bug, that's awesome! Zyzy is my new to me son, and part of being a rolemodel, is following through with getting the car from a thought to the dyno, to the track, and he will remember it always, similar to your memories with your dad.

Dake, I'm not sure on the ring and pinion. I have a feeling its a 4.37. It was built 15 years ago. I asked for a 3.88 and I think he re-used the 4.37 core I gave him.

Qwicktype1, a convertible is still doable. Murzi on here built a nice torquey naturally aspirated for his.
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Alstrup
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

Jeff, what is your transmission gearing? It does not sound stock. The R/P is definitely not 3,88. Or if it is the rest of the gears are low (I think)
What is your trap speed?
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:11 am    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
Jeff, what is your transmission gearing? It does not sound stock. The R/P is definitely not 3,88. Or if it is the rest of the gears are low (I think)
What is your trap speed?


Hey there! My guess is that its a 4.37 R/P, 114-4th, 144-3rd. The tires are 205/70/15 (actual height is 25.5 tall). Trap speed is 102.6 on the 13.0 run, and 103.2mph on a 13.3 run.

When the car ran out of fuel at the earliest point in a run, it was a [email protected], that run is not in the video as i accidently turned both cameras off instead of on Embarassed But the mph and et gave me some good hope that if I can give it enough fuel that it doesnt run out, I can do better then the 13.0/102mph as the 13.0 run was starving for 200ft.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

OK.
Makes sense. It looks like the speed at 6000 is 100,4 mph +/- the variation in tyre sizes. Thatīs about where the tachometer is.

It also explains why you can make pretty good time slips with the set up. A stock geared transmission would soon set you back 0,4-0,6 sec which corresponds well with what I see some of my customers do with power versus weight and gearings.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

jpaull wrote:
Hey there! My guess is that its a 4.37 R/P, 114-4th, 144-3rd. The tires are 205/70/15 (actual height is 25.5 tall). Trap speed is 102.6 on the 13.0 run, and 103.2mph on a 13.3 run.


Yeah baby! Thatís gotta be a tooth filling loosening ride on the highway with the solid mounts, and the super duty 1.14!

Do you remember what your trap rpm was?

Top Fuel cars have already gained 85+% of their speed at the 660 timer, so falling off at the end of the track is kind of the nature of the beast. It can be optimized with gearing to the engine with our cars, but itís still going to happen. Itís also relative to what we may be racing.

I swapped a 1.41 3rd for the stock 1.26 in my 74 Super with a 1776 because I was getting passed at the end of some heads up fun run 1/8th mile events local to me. Once I had the 1.41, I started leaving cars at the end of the run. When I started running 1/4 mile brackets, the 1.41 was a tiny bit too short for 1320ft. for my liking. Shifting from the 1.41 3rd to the .93 4th was a lot of rpm drop for the 1776 to make up in a couple hundred feet, and some faster competitors would make up some ground at the end. It didnít really matter too much with the bracket racing as long as you ran your number.

I also ran a friends 67 with a 2276 with a 1.26 3rd, and had some of the 1/8 mile heads up runs fairly close at the stripe. When I ended up with the 67, there was a noticeable rpm drop daily driving it from the Super with the 1.41. I switched to a 1.35 3rd in the 67, and like the Super, started pacing, or pulling away from competitors at the end of the 1/8 mile fun runs.

Also, if your racing a turboíd fwd vehicle that canít break 2 seconds in their 60ft. time, but has significantly more power than you, they will have more trap speed. That makes it seem like they didnít fall off as bad as you did at the end of their run, when in reality they simply had a piss poor launch. Aircooled cars arenít known for their trap speed since they have abnormally low 60 ft. times due to the engine placement/weight of the vehicle.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

Great results and thanks for sharing jpaull. This kind of real world testing and sharing of results benefits all of us, it is also inspirational.

I wanted to ask about your leaning out at the top of the track, I am only asking as I am trying to learn. Seeing as the biggest restriction in the fuel system is likely the needle and seat, is it possible you only have a 1.5mm inlet valves and maybe you would benefit from 2.0 or larger?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
jpaull wrote:
Hey there! My guess is that its a 4.37 R/P, 114-4th, 144-3rd. The tires are 205/70/15 (actual height is 25.5 tall). Trap speed is 102.6 on the 13.0 run, and 103.2mph on a 13.3 run.


Yeah baby! Thatís gotta be a tooth filling loosening ride on the highway with the solid mounts, and the super duty 1.14!

Do you remember what your trap rpm was?

Top Fuel cars have already gained 85+% of their speed at the 660 timer, so falling off at the end of the track is kind of the nature of the beast. It can be optimized with gearing to the engine with our cars, but itís still going to happen. Itís also relative to what we may be racing.

I swapped a 1.41 3rd for the stock 1.26 in my 74 Super with a 1776 because I was getting passed at the end of some heads up fun run 1/8th mile events local to me. Once I had the 1.41, I started leaving cars at the end of the run. When I started running 1/4 mile brackets, the 1.41 was a tiny bit too short for 1320ft. for my liking. Shifting from the 1.41 3rd to the .93 4th was a lot of rpm drop for the 1776 to make up in a couple hundred feet, and some faster competitors would make up some ground at the end. It didnít really matter too much with the bracket racing as long as you ran your number.

I also ran a friends 67 with a 2276 with a 1.26 3rd, and had some of the 1/8 mile heads up runs fairly close at the stripe. When I ended up with the 67, there was a noticeable rpm drop daily driving it from the Super with the 1.41. I switched to a 1.35 3rd in the 67, and like the Super, started pacing, or pulling away from competitors at the end of the 1/8 mile fun runs.

Also, if your racing a turboíd fwd vehicle that canít break 2 seconds in their 60ft. time, but has significantly more power than you, they will have more trap speed. That makes it seem like they didnít fall off as bad as you did at the end of their run, when in reality they simply had a piss poor launch. Aircooled cars arenít known for their trap speed since they have abnormally low 60 ft. times due to the engine placement/weight of the vehicle.


Lots of good information about gearing in your comments. You have a lot of experience with this, and also know a lot about how different types of cars run. If anyone is reading this, and considering gear ratios, please take note of what gkeeton said above. Lots of wisdom in those few paragraphs.

My 60ft best was 1.8, and that's leaving with light wheel spin and slowly rolling into the gas. Yes, gotta love aircooled vw's with the motor sitting on the drive tires in the rear.

6100 through the traps.
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 1/4 Mile Results with Mild Stroker Reply with quote

j-dub wrote:
Great results and thanks for sharing jpaull. This kind of real world testing and sharing of results benefits all of us, it is also inspirational.

I wanted to ask about your leaning out at the top of the track, I am only asking as I am trying to learn. Seeing as the biggest restriction in the fuel system is likely the needle and seat, is it possible you only have a 1.5mm inlet valves and maybe you would benefit from 2.0 or larger?


Good question. I will need to take a look at whats in there. They are whatever came in the stock Spanish 48 idf's. Thanks for the heads up, that's a good thing for me to check!

The fuel line through the tunnel is the stock 1/4 inch line, and with that tiny facet style pump its the first thing I need to upgrade.
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