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oldspeed59 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2007 Posts: 6 Location: montclair CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 12:28 am Post subject: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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Hello all, this is my first post. I have a 1914 with a 120 cam and a 44 idf carb set up right now with a freeway flyer. This is not my daily driver anymore but it is my get in a drive it around a bit bug then I park it for a bit so on so forth. My question is what is everyone’s opinion on carb set up? I’ve considered going duel but again going back to it’s not a daily and I don’t want to deal with the constant tuning. So I do like that it is a single carb. At first it was a rocket but now it is super sluggish I know it more than likely needs a rebuild at this point. But what are some good options do I stick with the Webber? Is 44 a good size? How are the kadrons? Any input would help me out,
Thanks
Zach |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9147 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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I don't put 44s on anything under 2000cc with good heads, but that's just me.
I don't know why people think you have to constantly tune dual carbs. Jet them correctly, use good filters and filter bases to keep them clean and most important use good linkage. I haven't touched the carbs on my buggy engine for 4 years except to clean the filter. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12758 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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oldspeed59 wrote: |
a 44 idf carb set up right now |
This is a single center mounted carb... correct?
oldspeed59 wrote: |
I’ve considered going duel |
Yes do it!
oldspeed59 wrote: |
but again going back to it’s not a daily and I don’t want to deal with the constant tuning. |
As slalombuggy says there is no reason to have to do this IF it is properly set up in the first instance and has good quality air filters.
oldspeed59 wrote: |
I know it more than likely needs a rebuild at this point. |
The carb or the engine? If it is the engine that needs rebuilding, no carb change in the world will fix it!
oldspeed59 wrote: |
But what are some good options do I stick with the Webber? Is 44 a good size? |
I am VERY happy with my 40mm Webers on my 1911. Idles like stock and pulls hard to 5800 RPM. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Dusty1 Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004 Posts: 1435
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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Carburetors, two of 'em. Otherwise your single carb will fight with your 120 cam 'til the cows come home.
Urban Legend has it if your cam has more than 270 degrees duration you want dual carbs. Your 120 has 294 degrees duration.
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bedlamite Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004 Posts: 183 Location: WI
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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Stock heads and valves? pair of 40idf
Good flowing heads with 40-42 valves? pair of 44idf |
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BFB Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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im not saying for or against anything but I will say, ive run plenty of single center mount carbs on bigger engines and even have a buddy that has a 2110 or something just over 2000cc and runs a pict carb on it because he wants it to look stock, and it runs & idles great. now could it run better with with a bigger carb(s) , probably. could I get it to run with that carb? no, absolutely not, I can hardly get a stock 1600 to run with a pict.
I think most people will say singles dont work , because duals are more forgiving. ive seen a lot of guys pull duals out of the box, throw them on without any rejetting at all or even syncing the carbs and go. _________________ Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1 |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7229 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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A centermount IDF/Dell is a PITA any day of the week. But it can be made to run fair with some effort. It will never support much power unless a LOT of work is done elsewhere in the intake.
While it sounds counterintuitive, engines with the, cough, W120 cam are often easier to get to run fair compared to the everso popular W100. It doesnt make more power, it just behaves different.
As for the rocket part... Thats a personal experience _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
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oldspeed59 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2007 Posts: 6 Location: montclair CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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Thank you guys, you all have made it pretty clear I should be running duel carbs the motor itself has probably less thank 5000 miles on it, but has sat on and off for a number of years. from what I remember it has a 1 1/2 exhaust right now with a stinger I know I will be updating that with a proper exhaust. it has stock heads and valves on it right now. I have always had a 1600 DP for the majority of me owning the car but finally decided to try and do it right I went with the 1914 what carbs and linkage do you guys recommend and what should I jet it to? what are good filters and filter bases? I am still trying to figure out how to upload pictures so I can show you what I am working with. again thanks all you guys! |
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oldspeed59 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2007 Posts: 6 Location: montclair CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26794 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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It's more about YOU.
What you get out of the general opinions is.......... it's either worthwhile or it isn't.
A lot of people screwing around with the single IDF/DRLA concept will tell you..... is it's just not worth it unless you have a REASON.
They both can work. I guarantee it, I've done it both ways.
But it's more like profit and loss. Just economics.
MOST PEOPLE have more to gain with the duals, so the investment in learning how to make them it work.... is... worth it.
While running the single is also totally possible, but the GAIN is very much a matter of taste, which appeals to only a limited number.
Offroaders usually.
When you look at what it takes to prevent duals from flooding over on rough roads and look at what kind of filter system you need to to make duals work in dusty conditions without reducing performance then a single starts to look easier.
But for weekend warrior use, you look at pure gas, think about having a electric fuel pump on a switch, R2C filters, it's not so hard, to make duals work nice.
WHEN duals work nice, they really do work nice, it's TIMELESS thing, very nice, no shortcuts or substitute, for the sound and feel. |
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jimmyhoffa Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014 Posts: 1059 Location: St. Louis
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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modok wrote: |
It's more about YOU.
What you get out of the general opinions is.......... it's either worthwhile or it isn't.
A lot of people screwing around with the single IDF/DRLA concept will tell you..... is it's just not worth it unless you have a REASON.
They both can work. I guarantee it, I've done it both ways.
But it's more like profit and loss. Just economics.
MOST PEOPLE have more to gain with the duals, so the investment in learning how to make them it work.... is... worth it.
While running the single is also totally possible, but the GAIN is very much a matter of taste, which appeals to only a limited number.
Offroaders usually.
When you look at what it takes to prevent duals from flooding over on rough roads and look at what kind of filter system you need to to make duals work in dusty conditions without reducing performance then a single starts to look easier.
But for weekend warrior use, you look at pure gas, think about having a electric fuel pump on a switch, R2C filters, it's not so hard, to make duals work nice.
WHEN duals work nice, they really do work nice, it's TIMELESS thing, very nice, no shortcuts or substitute, for the sound and feel. |
I have lived all of these exact situations fully through from beginning to end on multiple engines and configurations of those engines, and I do not see anything inaccurate here. If I were you, I'd probably get some IDF manifolds and linkage parts at Pomona swap for a few dollars, find another 44IDF, put some smaller venturis in and hope it is tuneable. If not, sell the 44s, drop to 40IDFs, and be happy.
Of the budget linkages on the market, there's something distinct that I truly hate about all the usual suspects. Redline? Stupid hex bar end bushings that wear out fast. CB? absolute garbage rod ends for links to carb arms. Berg? WHY WOULD YOU MOUNT THE LINKAGE TO A FLOPPY PIECE OF SHEET METAL THAT SHIFTS WHEN YOU GO OVER A BUMP. (I'm probably biased because I'm a buggy guy but like seriously? Look at all the things there are to bolt linkages to and Berg picks the sheet metal. ) EMPI? A okay average of Redline and CB but no novel distinct ideas, just a super generic linkage. There is an even sadder China linkage comprised of all sheet metal parts that is super hilarious - total wet noodle. I honestly don't know what to say. For your car I'd just get a cheap hex bar and start playing. I still have the Redline on my buggy and it's sorta dumb but works for now. It's on thin ice with me and is gonna get aggressively reengineered if it acts a fool again. The centerpull stuff is novel but it's perhaps a little trickier to get the geometry right than a hex bar.
My single 44 was great in Moab and Colorado, and I love my new duals dailying the buggy, but now I am fighting silting my engine off road and flooding. Time for a more complex intake and sumping the float bowls. _________________ 1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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mcdragracer Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2007 Posts: 714 Location: Cally
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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36 or 40 dual Dellorto's would be a real nice setup for that engine. |
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oldspeed59 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2007 Posts: 6 Location: montclair CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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mcdragracer wrote: |
36 or 40 dual Dellorto's would be a real nice setup for that engine. |
I have always heard Dellortos was the way to go, what is a good linkage set up? |
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oldspeed59 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2007 Posts: 6 Location: montclair CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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Dusty1 wrote: |
Carburetors, two of 'em. Otherwise your single carb will fight with your 120 cam 'til the cows come home.
Urban Legend has it if your cam has more than 270 degrees duration you want dual carbs. Your 120 has 294 degrees duration.
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What would a good timing number would be? |
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oldspeed59 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2007 Posts: 6 Location: montclair CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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slalombuggy wrote: |
I don't put 44s on anything under 2000cc with good heads, but that's just me.
I don't know why people think you have to constantly tune dual carbs. Jet them correctly, use good filters and filter bases to keep them clean and most important use good linkage. I haven't touched the carbs on my buggy engine for 4 years except to clean the filter. |
what are good filters? and what would you recommend for a linkage set up? |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26794 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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I've usually made my own linkage.
One day soon I will make a tutorial on how to make one, and it can be easy.
Imo the airfililters are the hardest to perfect. Limited space in a bug engine compartment. Cbs drla kits had it best but I'm still too retarded to machine an ellipse with my manual machining......oh well, an oval can work. |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9147 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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oldspeed59 wrote: |
slalombuggy wrote: |
I don't put 44s on anything under 2000cc with good heads, but that's just me.
I don't know why people think you have to constantly tune dual carbs. Jet them correctly, use good filters and filter bases to keep them clean, and most importantly, use good linkage. I haven't touched the carbs on my buggy engine for 4 years except to clean the filter. |
what are good filters? and what would you recommend for a linkage set up? |
I like the CB filter housings as they are aluminum, and the filter elements have a solid base to seal on. I also like their crossbar linkage because the parts fit together well, they use quality rod ends, and the crossbar is steel. I have also used CSP twist linkage, and it is very good also. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12758 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:13 am Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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Yes on the CB filter bases and linkage but the filters are nothing more than window screen in my experience. Only good for helping outer filters hold their shape. After the first mile on our gravel road getting to the blacktop I found more road dust inside the filter elements than outside. My wife sewed up some outers from flannelette diaper material. Going on the 5th year now and not a single plugged jet! The inside of the carbs are still squeaky clean.
_________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Dusty1 Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004 Posts: 1435
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Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:20 am Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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oldspeed59 wrote: |
Dusty1 wrote: |
Carburetors, two of 'em. Otherwise your single carb will fight with your 120 cam 'til the cows come home.
Urban Legend has it if your cam has more than 270 degrees duration you want dual carbs. Your 120 has 294 degrees duration.
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What would a good timing number would be? |
You need to dial in your combination before you worry about timing.
I used to have a big- ass hill right outside my workshop. I'd run my Bugs up in the winter when it had snow on it just to prove they would do it. In the summer I would run as much advance as they would take. Advance it until it starts to ping climbing my big- ass hill and either back it off a little or run premium.
I usually had a drum of race gas in the shop. Race gas won't grow you another carburetor. It makes a whole bunch of tuning issues into non- issues.
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mcdragracer Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2007 Posts: 714 Location: Cally
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Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Best carburetor for a 1914 set up? |
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oldspeed59 wrote: |
mcdragracer wrote: |
36 or 40 dual Dellorto's would be a real nice setup for that engine. |
I have always heard Dellortos was the way to go, what is a good linkage set up? |
I like the standard cb performance hexbar setup works well, easy to adjust, also used is a good quality center pull setup and yes you heard right about the Dellortos. |
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