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Stunna22 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2018 Posts: 9
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Posted: Wed May 26, 2021 4:26 pm Post subject: 1970 vw bug 2.3 ford |
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I'm building a baja and I already got my 2.3 ford I'm planning on putting a turbo in I already know what's needed to hold the power in everything I just am un sure of what would be the best way to help hold up the heavier engine and compensate for the high hp |
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joemama Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1636 Location: La Crescenta, California
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Posted: Fri May 28, 2021 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug 2.3 ford |
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Depends on what you are doing with the suspension. If sticking with torsion bars, you can get some that are thicker than stock. Possibly 26mm. I believe stock are 22mm. If deleting the torsions and going with a thru rod and coil overs, then you would need to figure out what spring rate works for you. |
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earthquake Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008 Posts: 3984 Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 11:39 am Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug 2.3 ford |
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I would build a HD rear engine cage and make motor mounts off of it, make sure to tie it into the frame horns and through the fire wall preferability to a roll cage.
eQ _________________ 74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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Stunna22 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2018 Posts: 9
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Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug 2.3 ford |
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My plan is to keep it as close to factory as I can get I. Bot a big fan of the full caged look |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Mon May 31, 2021 10:44 am Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug 2.3 ford |
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Stunna22 wrote: |
My plan is to keep it as close to factory as I can get I. Bot a big fan of the full caged look |
If you don't want to support it off the engine cage, because you don't want the "full caged look", then what are you thinking is going to support that much heavier than stock cast iron engine?
This IS the "Offroad Forum". Do you plan to use the Baja Bug offroad? If yes, then you ESPECIALLY need to add support for the engine.
You haven't said where you are located or how you intend to use the car. Both of those are factors in how the car is best built and how we other users on here will respond to your request to advise you.
You say you're not "a big fan of the full caged look". Is the car all about the "look"? If you're building a car for shows on the lawn at the park, or in parking lots, then the engine won't need so much support. But beware of speed bumps in those parking lots, and beware of driveways and beware of gutters, and beware of intersections that have deep gutter crossings, and beware of potholes in the road. Because that cast iron Ford 2.3 IS a LOT heavier than the magnesium case/aluminum head VW, just like any other cast iron engine is. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Wulfthang Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2018 Posts: 719 Location: Tucson
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Posted: Mon May 31, 2021 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug 2.3 ford |
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I have a street legal rail that I built as a trail runner. I don't do jumps or anything like that but the old mining trails are pretty rough. Mine has a 2.8 V6 Ford engine in it. A VW engine weighs in at about 250 pounds. My engine weighs in at close to 400 pounds.
My transaxle is solid mounted but I still didn't want all that weight hanging off of four bolt points. The weight was enough to worry about but then add in sliding off of trail ridges, going over wash outs, etc. It slams around pretty hard.
I added two heavy steel mounts, one on either side of the engine to the oem mounting points. Then I added another steel mount to the rear end of the engine. The two on the side stop torque twisting and the one in the back is mostly for holding weight.
Even with the extra mounts and the heavier duty transaxle, I still baby it. No burnouts on pavement or hard surfaces, keep it under 120 mph, etc. |
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earthquake Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008 Posts: 3984 Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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Posted: Mon May 31, 2021 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug 2.3 ford |
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It isn't just the weight, the 2.3 is longer so it is acting like a lever so with out any kind of mounts it will probably eat front trans mounts pretty regular.
You could run a solid front mount but then it will probably break the transaxle it self or it will twist the frame horns until they break.
eQ _________________ 74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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BFB Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Mon May 31, 2021 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug 2.3 ford |
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i love seeing buggys for sale that ppl put v8's in and you see a jack or jack stand holding up the rear end for the photos... _________________ Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1 |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12758 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon May 31, 2021 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug 2.3 ford |
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If you think an engine cage is ugly, how are you going to hid a big old radiator and related plumbing? _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug 2.3 ford |
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richardcraineum wrote: |
i love seeing buggys for sale that ppl put v8's in and you see a jack or jack stand holding up the rear end for the photos... |
_________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Stunna22 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2018 Posts: 9
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Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug 2.3 ford |
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Okqy if I was to put in a caged back to support the engine what would it need to be attachment points for the cage and things like that |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug 2.3 ford |
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If you're not going to offroad it hard, it could be as simple as an EMPI Baja Bug rear bumper cage with mounts from the bottom of the engine cage. If ya want it to go offroad, the motor mount supports should be tied into a full roll cage,
Look through the Offroad Gallery. It may be a LOT of pages, but there are lots of Bajas with alternate engines in them in those pictures. Have you tried a search for "Pinto Engine"? Search the HBBOffroad forums as well as the Offroad gallery.
For an offroad going car, I prefer to mount such an engine with bars that come from the upper corners of the engine compartment where the fore-aft bars meet the cross member above the bellhousing and down to the motor mount points on the sides of the block. I find that supporting the engine with mounts from the bottom of the engine cage can result in pushing the engine up when the skidplate is hit on mother earth. Thing flex when they go bang. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Wulfthang Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2018 Posts: 719 Location: Tucson
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Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 vw bug 2.3 ford |
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Like oprn mentioned: Don't forget about the radiator. It's a water cooled engine so you're going to have to cram a radiator in there someplace. I saw one years back that had one of those Cady/Lincoln type noses. He installed the radiator there under the nose and it fit good. |
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