engine tuning, 34 PICT questions??

[tkgeorge_99]

So I recently replaced the original, yes the original 1500 SP engine out of my bus. Its a 67 Brazilian. I was given a "new" 1600 DP a few years ago from a friend of a friend that has been sitting around in my shop. The clutch was slipping on old engine and it was time to swap it out.

So I put in new engine and ordered a new 34 PICT 3 EMPI carb. I know EMPI... but it has quite a few good reviews about running right out of box. Anyways, short story is I couldn't get it to idle so I took it to my trusty vw shop. They messed with it a bit ( 3 hours)and still can't get it tuned right. They put in slightly bigger jets but it still wan't to die when idling. I suspect it has a dished cam as it has that "stumble" idle going on. It has 009 distributor and is timed at just a few degrees before tdc. Shop didn't seem to thing it was a distributor or timing issue but I don't know. The shop did smoke test for vacumm leaks and says all good. Its also hard to start when cold. I have to floor it and let it crank for a little bit. Upside, is that on the road its peppy and runs strong with plenty of power. Once its well warmed up it will idle but still wants to die when I come to stop unless I rev it up a little and then it will settle into an idle. Its idling right at 900 rpm. The shop is good and I watched the mechanic mess with it so I am not sure what to do next

I am frustrated and at a loss. If the mechanic can't get it to work and is basically out of options, what next? I thought about making sure auto choke is adjusted properly, which I will check. I just want it to fire up when I turn the key and not die at stop lights! Anyone's thoughts???

[andk5591]

The Empi 34 is fine. I have installed quite a few and keep at least one in stock for someone that doesnt need a rebuilt Solex. The carb comes with detailed set up instructions that MUST be followed. If you threw them out, go through this.

http://vw-resource.com/34pict3.html

You need to set the choke stepped cam adjuster properly, then you go through the adjustment screws. Usually the jetting they come with is fine.

If all that is good and done, verify the idle cut off solenoid is working properly...in fact, do that first, because if it isnt, you can't tune it.

I have never done a smoke test for vac leaks, but they must use it successfully.

We are also assuming that they verified the choke operation.

And your 009 is ONLY is to be timed at full advance (28-32 degrees), which usually puts idle between 5 and 12 degrees.
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D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[Who.Me?]

I chased ghosts in my engine trying to get it to idle. I tried solex and empi carbs, but the problem persisted. (hard starting, rough idle, but ran great at high revs)

Eventually I pulled the engine apart and found that it had an engle w110 cam in it. Apparently they're a nightmare to get to idle correctly with a single carb.

I'm replacing it with a stock cam.

Pull the oil pump and look for makings on the face of the cam. Aftermarket cams are often marked and you can read the type through the oil pump hole.

Loosen the case bolts nearest the pump and use an oil pump puller to extract the pump without damaging the case. You don't need to drain the oil, or pull the engine, but you need to remove the valance panel, rear tin, pulley and pulley tin. Takes about an hour and you'll know one way or the other.
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Andy


Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786

[tkgeorge_99]

thanks for replies. Yes I have instructions and actually took them with me to shop and reviewed them with mechanic. He agrees with them and followed them best he could. I still need to check choke position and I will check idle cut off. How do I check idle cut off?

I really think carb is adjusted best it can be... I am hoping its might be choke position. I don't think its idle cut off because it does idle, just not very well. Especially when cold but once its warmed up it will hold idle but just wants to die when coming off throttle. It actually does better if I let off throttle abruptly instead of down shifting to a stop.

I suspect it has engle w110 cam..... mechanic suspects a non stock cam as well. It has same symptoms as described... hard starting, rough idle... but runs great at higher revs. Wondering if anyone has had any success with working through issue with keeping engle w110 cam in engine? Dual carbs? Running out of money on project and just want to have it start in morning and run with out dying at the stoplights....

I appreciate comments and any further suggestions

[Who.Me?]

[tkgeorge_99]

I wish I knew more history on engine. It is a new rebuild, it came with the used bearings in the boxes of the new bearings. I did compression test, all 100+ psi. I think the engine is good, just not sure of what cam is in it. No way to check with original builder. I was told its got less than 1000 mile on it.

I'm guessing dual carb set up is $500 ish? anyone have any suggestions on a good reliable set up?

[turkis-deluxe]

[tkgeorge_99]

I have a set of kadrons on my Baja bug. They have been great. I may have to explore that option

Can anyone explain why dual carbs will help over single?

[andk5591]

if you cant get it to run with a single, not sure why you would be able to get it to run with duals....Just sayin.....I cant say I know first hand if you have the cam that you may suspect would kill idle, so keep that in mind....

And you have redone the timing, correct? Set at max advance....And for shits an giggles, swapping the distributor might be worth trying. I have had an 009 that the advance was way messed up and also had them where it was stuck...Takes 5 minutes.....and you can rule that out....BUT I assume that they are confirming its advancing properly....BUT concerned that they are timing it at idle...
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[turkis-deluxe]

[wcfvw69]

[tkgeorge_99]

Thanks to all who have chimed in. I will go back through the basics as suggested. I'll recheck valves. Check auto choke. Change fuel filter.
Vw shop checked timing. Says it's a few degrees BTC and advancing properly. They had carb apart and cleaned jets and then re jeted it. I would hope they would have noticed if things were messed up.
I figure it's just down to basics of fuel, air, and timing. I'm just at a loss that the professionals can't seem to figure it out. I'm a part time wrench turnedr but I'm trusting the experts and they seem baffled.
I'm not opposed to trying dual kadrons but don't want to spend additional $500 to find I have same problem. At this point I'm trying not to throw good $ after bad. I guess I'm just frustrated. I do most of my own work and mess stuff up all the time due to ignorance and lack of experience but I always figured if I ponied up $ and went to shop, they should be able to fix it. They spent 3 hours on it, so I would think they could figure it out.
Still open to anymore thoughts or suggestions

[wcfvw69]

Be mindful that there's not a worse miss-match of carb/distributor than a 34-3 carb and a mechanical only 009 distributor. There's thousands of threads about the dreaded "flat spot" or off idle hesitation with that combo.

You'd be much better off replacing the mechanical only 009 with an SVDA distributor. It cures any flat spots and provides a much better driving experience.
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[earlywesty]

[tkgeorge_99]

sound advice. I will locate a SVDA distributor and re check everything. Hopefully, that will fix my troubles. Like I mentioned, I'm not trying to squeeze performance or power out of engine, I just want it to start when I turn the key and not kill at the stop lights.

Quick question about timing. It is a newer mexican case... I have it timed at a few degrees BTC static timing. I am not sure if this in correct. I know some cases are 8 BTC , 0 TDC and * ATDC. I use the old school John Muir method of timing. Since I wasn't sure of exact timing, I decided that right around TDC would be best.

[wcfvw69]

[tkgeorge_99]

sounds good. I will get a timing light. If I switch to a SVDA is the procedure similar?

[BarryL]

[tkgeorge_99]

it has power at the connection with ignition on... how else would I check it? It idles okay once warmed up, with a bit of a stumble, when it seems to die is when I am coming to a stop after driving. Maybe I don't understand symptoms of idle cutoff malfunction but it doesn't seem to be that.

I searched several threads on timing with SVDA, so I think I have that covered now.

[BarryL]