Type 4 starting issue

[waterhammer]

I have a 1982. Vanagon with a rebuilt(maybe 1500 miles) 2.0.
Engine is a non California model still sporting the original fuel injection and points ignition. Recently had and issue( happened 3 time over the last week) where after driving the van when I shut the engine off, it doesn’t want to start again. It will give a slight stumble with no acceleration pedal applied but will not roar to life. Doesn’t do anything with pedal pushed while starting.
Now here’s the strange thing. The engine will start if I crank it with the clutch pedal out and the transmission in gear. It almost like the load causes it to start.
I guess I should start with spark plugs and plan to check as much as I can using a meter and my Bentleys.
Anyone had a similar issue?

[Corwyn]

Type 4 (Eurovan) or Type 3 (Vanagon)?

I'm not a mechanic, but the first thing I would do is replace the fuel filter and/or the fuel pump.
_________________
'90 White Westy ("White Lightning")
FAS Gen V 2.0
The Annual Baja Rally
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=604813&highlight=baja

"If anything's" gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there"
~ Captain Ron ~

[waterhammer]

Type 3 van type 4 engine

[Sodo]

[waterhammer]

Type 3 van type 4 engine

[waterhammer]

Thanks I’ll check the grounding system tomorrow. I had the engine and transmission out a month ago and the ground strap on the transmission mount looked ok.

[Wildthings]

[Xevin]

[MarkWard]

Unlike a carburetor engine, pumping the gas pedal doesn’t actually add more fuel. It only opens and closes the throttle plate.

Not sure how you stumbled across that it starts when it’s in gear. That’s not good for anything.

Your description of the symptom is a bit confusing to me. It reads like it does start, but doesn’t have power to move off and dies? Will it start and idle? Or does it crank and not start at all?

Since it runs fine otherwise, it’s likely not compression related. A hot engine/starter can rob power from other systems. Also multiple attempts at starting if the injectors are spraying will quickly flood the engine.

When you have an engine that cranks but won’t run, you need to determine if it’s spark related or fuel related or both. The ground strap suggestion is interesting as always. I’d start with the basics. Have you checked the points gap? Have you verified ignition timing? If you own a timing light you can easily check the ignition/spark circuit with a timing light. I’d also invest in a noid light for checking injector pulse. A fuel pressure gauge is also helpful. Fuel pressure could be dropping too quickly causing a symptom similar to vapor lock.

Good luck getting it sorted. Happy Thanksgiving.

[waterhammer]

I opened the throttle to see if maybe allowing more air through the engine would help out if it were flooded. Is it a good idea to remove the enrichment injector from the plenum ? I suspect it may be leaking by.


I have a newer starter from go westy and it spins over quickly.
The engine will act like it wants to start giving a little jolt, then just keeps spinning on the starter. Like I stated earlier, when this happened (all three times), It will turn engine over just not start. I will only start when the van is in 1st or reverse with the clutch pedal released.
I have checked the dwell and timing 49 angle and 8 static 28 full advance with vacuum disconnected.

[Nitramrebrab72]

1st or reverse start only with clutch released.. Likely due to the greater torque in the lower gears moving the engine enough to repair an internally broken wire/loose connection.. More than likely the ground strap...

[MarkWard]

The enrichment injector or cold start valve should be off line on even a warm engine. Unplugging it should completely disable it. If it’s physically leaking, that’s not helping anything. You’d have to bypass the fuel from it. A simple hose barb fitting.

That it cranks quickly is a good sign. Have you put a timing light on it when it won’t start? Without a warning noid light, you can listen to the injectors. Use a stethoscope or a long screw driver against your ear.

That it cranks, I’m thinking more along the lines of a poor connection other than the ground transmission ground strap, but adding good grounds won’t hurt.

If it has good compression, spark at the correct time and fuel pressure there is no reason it shouldn’t start. Your work around isn’t really helping to narrow in on the actual problem.

[waterhammer]

“Not sure how you stumbled across that it starts when it’s in gear. That’s not good for anything“

This happened once in the driveway and I was going to use the starter to roll it out of the way. Just so happened this was the first time it gave the no start issue and was surprised when it started right up while in gear.

[MarkWard]

Years ago, had a VW rabbit GTI in the shop for an intermittent no crank problem. The owner would get out of the car, open the hood, look around, close the hood, get back in the car and close the door. The engine would then start. It didn’t happen often.

It finally acted up on me, I did his routine and the engine started. It did end up being a poor ground connection. This was on of VWs first 5 speeds and they had changed how the transmission bracket ground strap fit. Tightening the bracket bolts fixed it. VW later moved the ground to a custom bellhousing bolt with a stud for the ground cable.

I mention this mainly because it was funny to me. Your method reminded me of it. Some problem/repairs you never forget.

[Xevin]

[Captain Pike]

[Xevin]

[waterhammer]

To follow up:
I ran a ground wire from the battery to the starter with no improvement.
I bypassed the enrichment injector with a piece of hose. I’m traveling and don’t have the means to fab up a block off plate. I left the device bolted to the plenum and unplugged the wires.
I changed out the spark plugs for new ones. The ones I removed were very sooty. I’m sure they were fouled. I measured the ignition coil according to my Bentleys and it was out of spec. I replace it with an on hand spare and it seems to working fine now.
Thanks for all of your help!

[Sodo]

[waterhammer]

Was an 8 gauge multi strand wire with crimped copper lugs on each end.