| Author |
Message |
splitpile
Samba's Worst Speller
Joined: May 03, 2000
Posts: 5927
Location: back to living where hell meets the suface
|
 Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:32 pm Post subject: Deep sump adapter |
 |
|
Sump adapter made by Tom Bruch to use a 1600 style sump on a 36 hp case. Would there be any interest in these if we have them made? I like them because I have some old school sumps that weigh 1/4 the weight of the BERG 36hp sumps (berg sumps are like lead weights). I'll weigh one and see exactley what they weigh but they are HEAVY
_________________
Stocking distributor of "The Funky Green Panels"
www.BUSTORATION.com metal and more for your bus
"no more hacking my sig line" |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
TomSimon
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2004
Posts: 751
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hey Ronnie, to use Tom's T1 to 36hp adapter, do you have to also re-drill and tap new holes in the T1 sump???
It looks as though the hole pattern clocking would be off, if you didn't also modify the T1 deep sump.
Yes I am interested in 2 of them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oval56
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 1309
Location: oktoberfest maintown
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
depends on the price, but i'm also interested
_________________
www.oval56.com
1956 Oval, 2364ccm typ4
1957 Oval Ragtop 1584ccm singel port modified
1950 Hebmüller, 1584ccm okrasa modified
DBK Germany!!!!!!!!!!
www.dbkvw.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Blauhaus
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2003
Posts: 140
Location: Jacksonville, FL
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Looks like a great idea. I would take one.
Do you think this would gain you any ground clearance using a thin-line sump?
Meaning this adapter plus a thin-line sump = less depth than a Berg sump?
_________________
www.blau-haus.com
QUALITY CLOTHING. PRODUKTS. FÜR THE PEOPLE.
** WANTED **
Haines VW dealership (Sacramento) license frame |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
splitpile
Samba's Worst Speller
Joined: May 03, 2000
Posts: 5927
Location: back to living where hell meets the suface
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Tom will be by again Monday and I'll get the whole scoop on them. He also had a manifold adapter made that will bolt type 1 duel port manifolds onto okrasa heads.
_________________
Stocking distributor of "The Funky Green Panels"
www.BUSTORATION.com metal and more for your bus
"no more hacking my sig line" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EmpiGT
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 2597
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Tom Simon wrote: |
Hey Ronnie, to use Tom's T1 to 36hp adapter, do you have to also re-drill and tap new holes in the T1 sump???
It looks as though the hole pattern clocking would be off, if you didn't also modify the T1 deep sump.
Yes I am interested in 2 of them. |
By the looks of the adapter, you just turn the late type one sump 90 degrees, so the front and back sides become the left and right sides. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Roadcow
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 1012
Location: Stockton, Ca. area
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Where is Tom going to find Chevy pistons? :^)
_________________
71 Westy Roadcow
67 Panel
63 Bug
66 Ghia Bonneville 2014
74 Ghia Vert
69 Bonneville Ghia 150 in Chico
69 Bonneville Ghia in Ireland
80 Cabby 2.1 16v
98 Passat |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EmpiGT
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 2597
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Que? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Roadcow
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 1012
Location: Stockton, Ca. area
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Inside joke sorry.
_________________
71 Westy Roadcow
67 Panel
63 Bug
66 Ghia Bonneville 2014
74 Ghia Vert
69 Bonneville Ghia 150 in Chico
69 Bonneville Ghia in Ireland
80 Cabby 2.1 16v
98 Passat |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rwoodshvac
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2010
Posts: 202
Location: VA
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would like one
Rick
_________________
57 Ragtop Semaphore Sedan
48 Aluminum Case drilled tapped, Full Flow Filter
Porsche 356 B Crankshaft 74mm
Porsche 356 B Rods
Shasta Cylinders with JE Pistons 80mm
WW Okrasa Heads worked by Ron Chuck
Speedwell Ratio Rockers 1.25
Dual Valve Springs w/Lash Caps
Blackline Racing Lifter Inserts, Manton Push Rods
34 Pbic Carbs rebushed by Mr Okrasa
Custom Okrasa Intakes enlarged to 34mm
Gene Burg Sump
Fram bypass Filter with Okrasa Oil Cooler |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
splitpile
Samba's Worst Speller
Joined: May 03, 2000
Posts: 5927
Location: back to living where hell meets the suface
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The CB sump fits nice, same width as the case. I like the way it fits 90 degrees off. except the fins run sideways. If I redrill the holes in the sump it would go on with the fins going the right way.
I'm going to see now if there is a way to make the adapter thinner and still be strong
I don't care, I'll run it this way and it seems half the weight of the BERG.
Might have some BERG sumps for sale soon 
_________________
Stocking distributor of "The Funky Green Panels"
www.BUSTORATION.com metal and more for your bus
"no more hacking my sig line" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bvilletom
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2006
Posts: 95
Location: cedar rapids iowa usa
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:29 pm Post subject: Sump adaptor |
|
|
To use this adaptor I just drilled 6 holes in the T-1 top mounting area 90 degrees from where they were originally located which basically falls between the existing holes. That is the only thing I had to do to the T-1 sump. It can be used on the 36 or the T-1 motors, you just have 12 holes in the upper mounting area and you still have enough gasket sealing surface. Then all the fins match the 36 case direction. I used the sump that has the slanted area front and rear and it looked real good.
You will have to make the oil pickup tube longer, I was very fussy about the tube fitting on the existing oil pickup to make sure it had no air leaks. I put the Berg magnet on the side. I have been running this for more than 3 years now. After installing the deep sump all my high RPM oil throwing problems ended.
You could probably make it thinner but you will lose some strength.
Bvilletom
_________________
bvilletom
36hp Challenge record holder New Age 126.236mph
1970 Porsche 914/6 – 2 liter LSR record holder
1992 Metro Sedan – 1 liter LSR records
1987 Chevy Turbo Sprint – under construction |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Daddybus
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2000
Posts: 1653
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| splitpile wrote: |
The CB sump fits nice, same width as the case. I like the way it fits 90 degrees off. except the fins run sideways. If I redrill the holes in the sump it would go on with the fins going the right way.
I'm going to see now if there is a way to make the adapter thinner and still be strong
I don't care, I'll run it this way and it seems half the weight of the BERG.
Might have some BERG sumps for sale soon |
Berg sumps are heavy and robust because they are designed to support the weight of the motor. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
grueni
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008
Posts: 582
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
beautiful adapter, but why making such an adapter if you could make the same with same or less work via welding?
the berg sump is much bigger...right. 1 liter to 1,5liter? 3 liter? i don't know.
wishes
christian
_________________
1960 1584cc turbocharged, 35,5/32 (11,117s 1/4mile ) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
splitpile
Samba's Worst Speller
Joined: May 03, 2000
Posts: 5927
Location: back to living where hell meets the suface
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| grueni wrote: |
beautiful adapter, but why making such an adapter if you could make the same with same or less work via welding?
the berg sump is much bigger...right. 1 liter to 1,5liter? 3 liter? i don't know.
wishes
christian |
because not everyone has access to a mill, rotoey table, lathe and a heliarc 
_________________
Stocking distributor of "The Funky Green Panels"
www.BUSTORATION.com metal and more for your bus
"no more hacking my sig line" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TomSimon
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2004
Posts: 751
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I didn't think about rotating it 90 deg... must be why Tom owns so many records, always thinking 
I had my own 2-piece design sketched up, but I think I like Tom's simple design better. I don't care if the fins are rotated 90 to air flow, I have never seen any data to convince me that a deep sump, fins or not, cools the oil a measurable amount. For Bonneville, I will want to warm the oil before a run.
If you start making them Ronnie, I'll take 2, and I know several people interested as well.
_________________
2-time NASA Pro Racing Champion, Bonneville 130 Club and 150 Club Memeber, BRS Pro Gas racer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
splitpile
Samba's Worst Speller
Joined: May 03, 2000
Posts: 5927
Location: back to living where hell meets the suface
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TomSimon wrote: |
I didn't think about rotating it 90 deg... must be why Tom owns so many records, always thinking
I had my own 2-piece design sketched up, but I think I like Tom's simple design better. I don't care if the fins are rotated 90 to air flow, I have never seen any data to convince me that a deep sump, fins or not, cools the oil a measurable amount. For Bonneville, I will want to warm the oil before a run.
If you start making them Ronnie, I'll take 2, and I know several people interested as well. |
Sounds like there is enough interest to persue having some made. I'll start looking into manufacturing cost in a couple weeks. WAY to busy right now, but there are a few cnc shops in town I'll get some quotes from
The Berg sump and the CB thin line with The Bruch adapter seem to hang the same height. I forgot to take pics of the berg sump on the engine today. Converted my glass bead blaster to walnut shells today so I can do some 36 hp cases up before taking them into Cali for the Dow 19 treatment. Found a place that will do them
_________________
Stocking distributor of "The Funky Green Panels"
www.BUSTORATION.com metal and more for your bus
"no more hacking my sig line" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
grueni
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008
Posts: 582
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| splitpile wrote: |
because not everyone has access to a mill, rotoey table, lathe and a heliarc |
right, the question goes to tom the designer of this adapter. to do this adapter he needs the same machining like for the hole sump.
and no it needs no lathe. but welding fore sure.
produce x simple ring adapters( outer ring diameter, inner + holes for the 36er, machine x oil sump's and then weld them.
and at the end the sump lokates perfekt, no extra sealing and it will be cheaper than such an adapter+ sump and much cheaper than berg sump.
this adapter is definitly beautiful but why not making it easier and without that 90° offset+ extra sealing area.
just my 2 cent.
i don't want to hijack, just to help producing a good sump for the vintage speed people and as cheap as possible. vintage speed is expensive enought!
wishes
from germany
_________________
1960 1584cc turbocharged, 35,5/32 (11,117s 1/4mile ) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oval56
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 1309
Location: oktoberfest maintown
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
christian, bolt on things or adaptors are always easyer to do, so doing the welding of adapters into the sump and machining the sump for each adaptor needs time, and time takes money...in the end, for most it is zu expensive
75$ cheap sump.
machining the adaptor 25$ each (if cheap)
machining the sump 30$ (if cheap)
welding it in (20$) (if cheap)
total 150 in best case... 169 is the berg sump.
doing oll by yourself: Sump + material...
| grueni wrote: |
| splitpile wrote: |
because not everyone has access to a mill, rotoey table, lathe and a heliarc |
right, the question goes to tom the designer of this adapter. to do this adapter he needs the same machining like for the hole sump.
and no it needs no lathe. but welding fore sure.
produce x simple ring adapters( outer ring diameter, inner + holes for the 36er, machine x oil sump's and then weld them.
and at the end the sump lokates perfekt, no extra sealing and it will be cheaper than such an adapter+ sump and much cheaper than berg sump.
this adapter is definitly beautiful but why not making it easier and without that 90° offset+ extra sealing area.
just my 2 cent.
i don't want to hijack, just to help producing a good sump for the vintage speed people and as cheap as possible. vintage speed is expensive enought!
wishes
from germany |
_________________
www.oval56.com
1956 Oval, 2364ccm typ4
1957 Oval Ragtop 1584ccm singel port modified
1950 Hebmüller, 1584ccm okrasa modified
DBK Germany!!!!!!!!!!
www.dbkvw.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
grueni
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2008
Posts: 582
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
how i told i don't want to hijack...i know you come from industrie andi but me too my calkulations are totally different.
_________________
1960 1584cc turbocharged, 35,5/32 (11,117s 1/4mile ) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
